In this episode we speak with Sarah Freeman and Glenn Sako, both with the County of Hawaiʻi R&D Economic Development department. We learn about how they focus on agriculture and food systems on Hawaii Island (also known as the Big Island). We spoke to each of them at different times about how Hawaii County is working to advance and support the work of agriculture producers in the County
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources, and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
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In this episode we speak with Sarah Freeman and Glenn Sako, both with the County of Hawaiʻi R&D Economic Development department. We learn about how they focus on agriculture and food systems on Hawaii Island (also known as the Big Island). We spoke to each of them at different times about how Hawaii County is working to advance and support the work of agriculture producers in the County
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources, and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Associated Links (Sarah):
Associated Links (Glenn):
Find out more about us:
The views information or opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of individuals involved, and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, our funders, or any of the organizations affiliated with this project Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing"Experts in the Field" podcast featuring people working in their fields of expertise to provide support for agriculture producers in Hawaii, in the United States, and in some cases around the world. These podcasts were made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, also known as CTAHR, and the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project, and is supported by a grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Sarah Freeman:One of the main aspects of my position is to remove systemic barriers that prevents healthy food access for our residents. And so we really, you know, within my position, I work with community based networks, such as the Hawaii Island Food Alliance, the Hawaii Island Ag Partnership, and Vibrant Hawaii, to look at how the community is wanting to address ag and food system and food access related issues within our community and come up with collective solutions.
Glenn Sako:Brief summary is that I work with organizations and departments that have agricultural interests, or need technical assistance on agricultural issues. I also respond to public inquiries of an agricultural nature. I have a very diverse day and that's what makes this job so interesting and important. I try to address our contracts with our nonprofits and other research institutions first. That is so that they can get their funding to run their programs. And then it is usually addressing agricultural concerns, questions on permits, helping to plan events, meetings, and you know, doing my own research on an agricultural issue and so on.
Jim:In this episode, we talk with Sarah Freeman and Glenn Sako both with the County of Hawaii Research & Development Economic Development department. We learned about how they focus on agriculture and Hawaii food systems on Hawaii Island, also known as the Big Island, which is also the County of Hawaii. We spoke to each of them at different times about how Hawaii County is working to advance and support the work of ag producers on the island. But first, let's hear what Sarah has to say about her role in Hawaii County R&D when she and I met up at an ag We both happen to be at the Hilo Tropical Ag conference, the conference in Hilo. first ever as I understand it, it's being held at the University of Hawaii in Hilo. And during our lunch break, we decided to sit down and chat about what the County is doing, what Sarah's doing on the Big Island of Hawaii and some of the things related to her position, and some resources that may be available to ag producers if perhaps only through facilitators of resources or nonprofits in the area. Sarah, do you mind just giving a quick introduction of who you are and what your job description is like at the county?
Sarah Freeman:Sure. So my name is Sarah Freeman. I'm the Food System Specialist in the Department of Research and Development for the County of Hawaii. I've been in the position for about two and a half years and I've been in Hawaii for about five and a half. I came over in 2017 with my husband to support our friendsʻ farm in North Kohala at HIP Agriculture. And that's where I really started getting involved with agriculture on Hawaii Island, and that led to"Farm to School," "Garden to Cafeteria," food hubs, and statewide procurement and different kinds of issues that then led to my position here in the county, where I get to really focus on those full time. My position is funded through USDA SNAP Ed funding, and that goes to the Department of Health and then to the county of Hawaii, that supports the of funding in my position. One of the main aspects of my position is to remove systemic barriers that prevents healthy food access for our residents. And so that is, we really, you know, within my position, I work with community based networks, such as the Hawaii Island Food Alliance, the Hawaii Island Ag Partnership, and Vibrant Hawaii, to look at how the community is wanting to address ag and food system and food access related issues within our community and come up with collective solutions.
Jim:Wow. That sounds like a lot. I'm most immediately curious about barriers. You've been working at this now for a while, and I think HIP Ag is on the north end of the island, seems like they've had a lot of years of working in ag in the community and trying to expand the reach of local ag. So it sounds like you probably have a lot of understanding and experience with what some of the barriers are to completing your job description. So in, I mean not too much detail, but maybe what are some of the top barriers that you see?
Sarah Freeman:Yeah, I'll share some of the top barriers that I've seen as a producer. But also, we did a part of the Hawaii Island Ag Partnership and the Hawaii Island Food Alliance, we did a food and ag systems study in 2020 that was finished around 2021, and I'd say some of the top barriers that I face as a farmer, are the similar ones we found his main system constraints within the food system. And I'd say that's, you know, a) that's market data, and understanding the data within the system about what to grow, as well as resources available to you as far as a producer, so that's another one, I'd say. I think since post plantation era, where we had really strong resources through our University and through our state, now, as farmers, those systems are really disaggregated. And we no longer really know where are the resources that are available to us, especially as small farmers. So if we're dealing with crop issues, pest issues, production issues, where to send our soil samples, where to send our water samples, dealing with food safety, and also issues with labor, weather, you know, and climate and different things like that. As well, as you know, as a farmer, you have to be, you have to do the production, manage the business, and also find the market and do the distribution a lot of the time. And it's a whole host of challenges. And I think really leaning on, I think, in Hawaii County and within our state, we have to do better at coordinating and collective action as farmers and producers within the value chain system so that we're not trying to all do every part of the business in the value chain system. But also models like the Ulu Cooperative, where it's farmer owned through that value chain system, and that those funds are, you know, reinvested into the business and into the farmers. So I think really looking at how do we overcome those things? What are those big challenges? I've really been leaning on, like more cooperation within the system is better.
Jim:So a phrase that I've heard is coopetition, perhaps amongst farmers and ag producers, so that each is kind of taking a piece of that chain that you just described? Is that is that
Sarah Freeman:I think each taking a piece. But if we're what you're seeing? also looking at feasibility and volume as far as feeding our communities and feeding the state, we can't be so disaggregated within our, not only within our aggregation systems, but also in how we look at our resources. So also cooperation of like, it's really expensive to bring in different resources that we need to do our production systems. How do we bring those in collectively together to the reduce the cost of farming? Or how do we, even within this conference, how do we look at technologies that are appropriate that would potentially lower the cost of farming and look at that collectively to integrate that within two systems as as a collective versus trying to each figure it out on our own. Like, are we looking at technologies that are appropriate here, demonstrating them and then having a plan, a collective plan, to implement for that production. And so I think it's it can be through cooperatives, or it could be through partnerships or these different areas but I think we have to look at how we work better together to reach those feasibilities within our market system.
Jim:And it sounds like it needs to be systemic. It can't be borrowing my neighbor's tractor. I mean, that's certainly a way the way it happens. But, or ag parks even are maybe not enough. A number of folks have spoken about ag parks to address some of those things that you just mentioned so farmers can help, well, with the coop model, I guess farmers, they're all all growing, can help support each other when when they have a problem with their crop, they know that there's more to supply the demand.
Sarah Freeman:I think there's a lot to be said for ag parks and shared, you know, equipment and resources. And we're, through the Hawaii Island Ag Partnership, they are looking at mechanisms to have those use shared agreements, whether it's in value added processing equipment, or tractor sharing or other pieces like that. But I also think it's really important as we look at organizing and collaborating in these systems, I think it's really important to have the high tech systems and also large Ag is really important within our system. But I think if we're looking at long term food security and regional economic development that we have to be able to have, from the smallest producer to the largest producer, to be able to participate in the market system, and to be able to have some level of guaranteed market, guaranteed price, so there's that stability. And I think that we can get there because we, since we import the majority of our food, we know there's a lot of demand. It's just getting it through that market system and getting those support services through aggregation, food safety, and you know, as far as production as well.
Jim:Perhaps deliveries or infrastructure as well, logistics. So like, FarmLink I see as a model on Oahu that seems quite interesting, to help with, facilitate the things that you're talking about. Is that, do you see a broader use of things like FarmLink.
Sarah Freeman:Yeah, I think the coordination of food hubs are really important throughout our state because they're really able to work with any sized farmer to be able to meet those larger aggregation needs for larger, for the businesses that are having those larger volumes. and they're able to have the, you know, and support those services from food safety and those within the value chain. So whether it's something like FarmLink, or other partners like HFA, that are willing to look at, they are a logistics company, and they're willing to support within that value chain as far as food safety and cold chains into the larger aggregation services. But I think those regional hubs that act as those distribution mechanisms, and as entry into market, are really critical for us reaching having those - any size farmer being able to reach to a larger market and have access to that capital,
Jim:It seems almost, to me, is more critical on an island the size of the Big Island of Hawaii too, compared to some of the other islands, where it can be two to three hours to get from one side of the island to the next. And community, I think, and local hubs as opposed to just one central hub, are maybe even more critical.
Sarah Freeman:I think it's really important that we have centralized systems within our community or decentralized systems. I think one positive thing that the pandemic did through some of the feeding efforts is really connected community to the produce, local producers in their area, and diverting more of that food. And I think that those local value chain systems really need to grow. And I think that we have a huge issue with access and affordability within our local food system. And a lot of things that are grown in one place, go somewhere else and are never really seen in our communities. And that's on land and on sea. And I think that there's, it's really important to work on systems that that change that within our communities.
Jim:So you mentioned your own farming and ag production, so can you, could you share a little bit about what you're doing in the ag sector as a producer?
Sarah Freeman:Sure. Purchased a farm in the beginning of 2020 on the Hamakua coast in Ninole. It's a five acre fruit orchard. We have mangosteen, rambutan, avocado, tanjelo, durian. And we're also starting to grow some more mamaki, cacao as well as having ducks and chickens and some other diversified things. We inherited the orchard with a pretty large fire ant infestation, and so we've been really working on getting that under control. It really prevents us from being able to sell into the market feeling that we're not spreading that invasive species. And we're really also working on a lot of pruning and refertilization. So it is an established orchard but we're just doing a pretty much a slow rehab at the moment of that orchard. And then also putting in new and other diversifed crops within the system as well. We get an average of 140 plus inches of rain a year. And so that that brings some different challenges as far as nutrient depletion within the soil and also fruit production, I know that we have these issues of sometimes you have to have a certain level of water stress before something will flower or getting a lot of heavy rains. When you have the flowering will really affect your production. So there's all those really interesting challenges. We're very interested once we have the capital to do the improvement to look at the T-trellising for artocarpus varieties such as ulu, jackfruit, cempedak, cempejack, and things like that, as well as looking at V-trellising for other crops like durian and pullison and other crops that do well there. Because you can also have a more controlled environment of tarping and other mechanisms so you can create that water stress or protect them more during those heavy rains. And so we'll be experimenting on our land over time. And looking at that level of production. We were able to visit a farm in Australia to see that production and they've been doing really well with that type. And I think there's a lot of there's a lot of people that have been trialing those mess.. those methods and really figure out how to best get the trellises in Hawaii and the best materials to use and systems. But I think it's a really potential way for us moving forward, especially on the wetter sides of the island that are looking at different types of tropical fruits that require that type of stress without having to use a certain chemical compounds that kind of water starve the fruit into into producing.
Jim:I imagine your experience there and in your own ag production is a good insight to have for the work you're doing in the community and for the County. Um, along those lines, as I recall you were doing, or were instrumental in the "Garden to Cafeteria" program at HIP agriculture. Is that true? Yes. And are you still involved with that or what? Tell us a little bit about that.
Sarah Freeman:Sure. So for those who don't know, the also the "Farm to School" program was piloted at the Kohala Elementary and High School, and then about a year or so after that they also wanted to pilot the "Garden to Cafeteria" program. And the Farm to School Network was really a big part in the instrument of developing those programs. And so those with us within that Hui, we developed the Garden to Cafeteria program in coordination with the DOE, the Department of Health and other project partners. And you know, having a farm background, I was able to take my knowledge of GAP and FISMA, and also use resources developed by Northshore NVP, that had really simplified the combination of harmonized GAP, and apply that to the developing of the program. And I think is really important, you know, for, you know, students, not only that connection of growing food and from elementary, middle and high school, but itʻs getting familiar with those types of systems within production and using those methods for food safety, and, you know, in compliance. But then also just, I think, really important to the students of being able to like harvest those foods and then seeing them in the cafeteria. And I think it's a really amazing program. I think there's a lot of challenges in you know, I think there's a lot of talk last five years around, you know, first we're going to be really transitioning to all from scratch kitchens, doing regional procurement. And now we're more focused on doing the, I say we, but DOE is focused on doing centralized aggregation and centralized kitchens that do, then do distribution of meals to the schools as a way of better controlling what comes in and the types of things that are produced. But it also means that they don't have to retrain their staff, redo their contracts, and have to manage on each school level of how they're doing their Farm to School meals. And, but I would just say, on one of those challenges of doing that is the Garden to Cafeteria program. Because if you're not doing farm, you know, Farm to School, from scratch cooking in your cafeterias, it's a bit harder for the students to grow things that then end up in their cafeteria meals. And I think that, I mean, it could, you know, be more in their fresh fruit and vegetable program. More for like raw, like carrots and papaya and other things that they can eat raw and those kinds of in the classroom, or doing classroom consumption, which was already happening. But this was really meant to be a parallel to the Aina Puna program originally. And that is to say many charter schools have adopted the Garden into Cafeteria program and they are not having, they don't have the same limitations as many of the DOE schools in implementing into their cafeteria programs. And, but I have to say, that program is still running. I'm not as involved because I had to, especially with the application, the Build Back Better regional challenge, I had to take some things off of my plate. But it is a program that still exists and that schools can participate in. And they would really reach out to the Farm to School Hui and the network to see if there'll be available, availability to participate.
Jim:It seems critical too to get students interested in ag and ag production young, with the average age of the farmer and their 60s in Hawaii. And as we just heard at the conference, there's a big incentive to try to get the younger folks involved again. So that seems like a great way to introduce the concept and reconnect the younger, the younger students with ag in their community. You mentioned Build Back Better. So I know this morning, Mayor Mitch Roth mentioned Build Back Better and initiatives that that are going on related to that for the County. So can you tell us a little bit more about built back better?
Sarah Freeman:Sure. So as a part of the ARPA funds, that was given to the Economic Development Administration, also known as the EDA, and this is a regional challenge. And this was it was asking different groups to put in applications that were coalition based that looked at transforming regional economies. And so some examples they gave, it was different, like coal, post coal economies that were transitioning or post manufacturing communities that were transitioning. And for Hawaii, we really, you know, some say that tourism is our coal, you know, in those ways. And as I mentioned earlier, the Hawaii Island ag partnership, along with the Hawaii Island food Alliance, both participated in developing a food and ag system study that was ready in 2021, and really prepared us of looking at what are the market constraints and what are the interventions needing to change that so that we already had some really strong coalition areas. And so the county of Hawaii was one of I think, six or eight applicants in the state that applied to this Build Back Better regional challenge. And we were awarded phase one. So there was a phase one and phase two application of this process. Phase one, there was 529 applicants nationwide, and the county's proposal was chosen out of 60 finalists. And that really gave us $500,000 to prepare to do phase two, and also do some capacity building within the coalition. And March, mid March, we submitted our application for phase two for around $100 billion. And in perspective, it was really 11 federal grants and a 12th that was a 10 page overarching of the different projects. And our coalition partners for the phase two applic cation is the County of Hawaii, both R&D and the Department of Environmental Management had applications, and the Food Basket, the Kohala Center, Big Island Resource and Development Council, Synergistic Hawaii Agriculture Council, the Hamakua Institute and the University of Hawaii.
Jim:Wow, that's a big group.
Sarah Freeman:And through that, we're really looking at our value chain development, market system development, workforce development, research and innovation within the ag system, as well as looking at circular economy and how we look at our and utilize our wastes within the county, whether it'd be for energy or ag inputs, and increasing overall diversion from our landfills.
Jim:Is that all forms of waste, or is it ag tree trimmer waste? Is it, Is it manure? Is it all encompassing?
Sarah Freeman:Yes, and I think that were some positions in our proposed within the application within DEM, that would be resource and network coordinators, overall, looking at increased diversion and creating different networks that work on those areas and create increasing that. And another piece also is looking at, you know, I learned through this process that our main export by weight, and the county is cardboard that goes to Taiwan for recycling. And if we're able to keep it on island, either turning into compost or using it for energy production, or whatever is determined for the feasibility, that would really reduce our carbon in, you know, impacts as far as shipping it as well as keeping resources that our farmers need here. And so I think that with manure, or some of these other areas that would go in that resource coordination, and identifying the best use for those materials and keeping them from going to landfill or polluting our water.
Jim:Interesting. Multifaceted. When will you hear about the grant?
Sarah Freeman:They have to finalize the contracts by September 30, at the end of the fiscal year. So they've they haven't given an official date. Kristen, from the Food Basket, myself and Nicole Milne from the Kohala Center. Last week, we were in DC, they had a Build Back Better regional challenge conference for all the 60 finalists nationwide. And they really talked about how they're committed to helping us find all find funding for our projects. And that these types of coalition projects that won the Phase One are the type of economic development that will make transformative change through our nation. And this is the type of economic development I think that the federal government is looking into investing in over time. And so I think they'll we're also part of this long term cohort within that within that 60 finalists that they're really committed to supporting through that. So. And I also have to say that the county whether or not we receive the Build Back Better regional challenge funds is committed to finding funding to all of these projects. And because we're committed to it in general, whether we get it for the federal funds or not, we'll be continually fundraising to move it forward.
Jim:Well, that's great. Speaking of funds, and fundraising and financial resources, if as an ag producer, which is our target audience for the podcast. If ag producers are interested in partnering with you, with the County for financial assistance for for other types of assistance, what would you say is available are the ways to try to move through that process effectively?
Sarah Freeman:Sure. So the County of Hawaii, you know, I specifically R&D, we have an innovation grant that comes out each year, but that's available to the university or to nonprofits, so not essentially to businesses. And there's specific parameters around innovation within different areas within our department. And so I think for the average producer, the County doesn't offer funds for agriculture. I think there are programs that come through the state such as like the coqui frog and spraying and those reimbursement things are things that are related to pest management. But often we can help steward and identify where there are potential resources for producers such as through NRCS, and the EQUIP program, and if those might be suitable, and if he would be eligible for some of those programs. So we often might know what other funding sources are available to producers, but we're not often the source of those funding, especially for for businesses themselves. I think what we'd also really recommend is or what I'd recommend is support working within the Hawaii Island Ag Partnership or these other community based networks as we go after and have those supportive resources through collective processes,
Jim:Is that ag partnership open to any producer on the island or
Sarah Freeman:Anyone yes, there's no membership fee, and anyone can participate.
Jim:Great. So is it you would you say first stop would be to maybe connect with that group and look for local resources and then as opposed to sending sending you an email example. What's most efficient, right? I mean,
Sarah Freeman:I'd also say that, you know, goFarm has a really great website with a lot of resources that are available. to farmers, that when they're looking for support, and CTAHR, you know is also as an extension service, they are also there to support and identify resources for producers as well as NRCS. And reaching out to those agents that you have locally. People can definitely feel free to reach out to myself or Glenn Sako, the Ag specialists as we can connect our support and to resources. But I think as for the high why Island ag partnership, it's really, it's not maybe a place where that's where you go to get resources is that that is a place where you go to collaborate to identify how to collectively solve issues, or how to develop agreements within within your sector or within certain partnerships that move forward in a way that's effective and through their, their really going to be looking at too a market system development program, where you look at data, identify interventions, and implement those interventions and see if they make an impact within the system. So that space is is really for that collective action and change. And also identifying those public private partnerships within the industry.
Jim:Okay, so when might I want to reach out to your office, as an ag producer, if I were an ag producer? Yust you think that's probably better to go through, you know, Kohala Center, goFarm, CTAHR, NRCS those folks first, and then they, because you're really there, it sounds like you're really there to serve those types of folks, as opposed to the direct farmer or ag producer.
Sarah Freeman:Yeah, I think there's definitely this community resources, as you mentioned, or folks that are that do provide this business and technical service assistance. I can say that one of the I think that goFarm and also the Kohala Center and other partners created a hui of TA providers within the state. And I know that through their work, whether that is also included in the Build Back Better regional challenge, even without that they're working on more streamlined processes to identify those different areas of support needed by farmers. And so I think that really leaning into your areas of the technical assistance that are available within your community. And if you don't know what those are, and you need support connecting, I think coming to the County is a great idea because then we might be able to connect to where those resources are, who you would be able to connect with. So we might not have the resources, but we hopefully know where to connect people to.
Jim:Is there a contact us form? Or what's the best way to reach out to the office, I can put that in the show notes. If if you feel like there's a best way.
Sarah Freeman:There's an R&D website that has all the contact information that would have our email addresses and phone numbers.
Jim:Cool. I can post that. That sounds great. Well, we have a conference to get back to. But just since we are at the conference, any takeaways from the conference that you think are especially appropriate to what you care about and what you're working on for the County.
Sarah Freeman:Yeah, it's a lot of really interesting information. And I'm still really digesting a lot of it. I think that it's a lot of a really great technology out there. And I think where Iʻd really like to see as we move forward in this conference or in future conferences and conversations about how it's really applied here. You know, what the what kind of investment would do take from farmers to utilize that type of equipment, and those types of services. Whether it would be a service model, or whether it would be something they'd be able to purchase themselves, but just really like I'm interested as yes, there's a tech technology is out there. How do we apply it here? How does it financially work for our farmers? And really continue brainstorming of how that would work? And how do we support within that process?
Jim:In this, this is maybe more my agenda, but vertical ag is been talked about a lot in the conference. And I'm last I heard it would be about $150,000, I think to bring in Matson container that was set up and ready to go with vertical, which could be perfect in certain parts of the islands or any of the islands, especially the more desert climates. But do you see that as happening on the islands on the Big Island anyway? And in your role have you seen people starting to look at trying to adopt that?
Sarah Freeman:Not personally, as much? I think that it is a really interesting concept. I think that there again, is the ROI. Like if you make that large investment for that container, with the product that you're able to develop and what you're able to sell it out in that market, like when you're going to be able to make that money back. And is that technology still going to be sufficient by the time you reach that point? And then also just with a really high energy cost that we have in Hawaii, what impact does that have on that resource? So I think they're really important technologies and can be applied. But there's also still a lot of issues in systems that are with within the space, you know, and within the market that would really drive whether that's feasible for a producer to take on or not. I do know that the you know there's there's different work happening with some of those things that are also connected to the university and the community college. And I think there's a lot of innovation still to be done to see how some of these things are appropriate and applied in Hawaii, especially related to costs, and especially related energy costs.
Jim:I keep hearing from our ag producers, financial stressors are up the top and in that category can be just coming up with all the financial statements that are necessary for financing or for having a good strategy is what's as to what's profitable, and knowing that you're doing the right crops and the right volume. So it sounds like it's another case where you really have to, you have to do a lot of math, you have to do your math and do your homework upfront to make sure it's going to be worth it.
Sarah Freeman:And that's why I think that with a state looking at institutional purchasing, or whether that is also through our, you know, our markets like Costco, WalMart, Safeway, I really think that if we want to increase production, we have to do forward contracting, and we have to have a guaranteed market guaranteed price, and better access to technical assistance and services within the system. So that that farmers know that if they they they don't have to question if they grow that extra, you know, like broccoli, that they have a market for it. And it takes some of those things out. And that can be in a commodity pool relationship of, you know, expansion of a co op. And or it could be more informal as well. But I think that that for me, I think that's how we have to move forward. If we're going to be increasing production, we don't want to move product from one place in the market to the other. And we want to create more security for our producers to know that they can grow and become and reach that more economically viable point within their production system. So I'm really hoping that as we talk about it, we look at how we guarantee that market and guarantee the price.
Jim:What seems like the perfect way to end. I like that it kind of summed it all up right there. I think. So thanks so much for your time. Thanks so much for what you're doing for the County, for the islands. And it sounds like you've moved the needle in a lot of ways so far in your short time here. So thank you so much.
Sarah Freeman:Fingers crossed. Thanks.
Jim:We next speak with Glenn Sako in his somewhat different role and perspective on the work of Hawaii County R&D.
Glenn Sako:So I'm Glenn Sacco, Economic Development Specialist in Agriculture. That is my I guess, official title. I have 17 years of experience in the macadamia nut industry. I also worked as an extensions Agent with the University of Hawaii. I've spent the last eight years in this position as an Economic Development Specialist. I also have a small landscaping nursery. And I do some landscape maintenance also. So I'm pretty much spread out all over the place. So an Agriculture Specialist. Brief summary is that I work with organizations and departments that have agricultural interests, or need technical assistance on agricultural issues. I also respond to public inquiries of an agricultural nature. What is it typical day, I have a very diverse day and that's what makes this job so interesting and important. I try to address our contracts with our nonprofits and other research institutions first, that is so that they can get their funding to run their programs. And then it is usually addressing agricultural concerns, questions on permits, helping to plan events, meetings, and, you know, doing my own research on an agricultural issue, and so on.
Jim:Are there specific issues you're researching right now that you could share?
Glenn Sako:Well, actually, one of the big things that I'm working on right now is trying to set up or go through the permitting process to set up a marine aquaculture park in Hilo Bay. One of the industries we are looking to lift up and we think there's a lot of upside potential is aquaculture. Land on Hawaii Island, although, you know, moderately priced compared to the other islands, is still a limiting factor and is quite expensive. And we think that there's an opportunity to set up an aquaculture park in Hilo Bay to promote the production of oysters. It is going through the permitting process is quite daunting, and there's a lot of steps and hoops that we're going to have to jump through. So right now I'm you know, I've been attending some webinars I've been in communication with the Department of Land and Natural Resources with the University of Hawaii at Hiloʻs Pacific Aquaculture Research Center, and also with other nonprofits that have an interest in aquaculture in Hawaii.
Jim:I mean, I think that's a good example. Maybe we can talk a little bit more about it. As I understand it, the County is, is working in support of a variety of things, right? Local food production, and its quality, productivity, safety, increased consumption, trying to promote a look more local consumption as well, so consumers as well as producers, yeah. And then you mentioned the hydro and aquaponics, invasive species, which I guess in my opinion, includes people that are invasive of other people's property. So theft, soil, water conservation, affordable farmworker housing, which I think, is that one that you work with Sarah, on who we spoke with earlier? That's correct. Right. And I think general infrastructure development, it seems like, is is something that the County and you folks in R&D focus on, as well as strategic and emergency food plans? Yeah. I don't know. I feel like that's pretty much the broad spectrum of things. Do you feel like I left anything out there?
Glenn Sako:No, that's, that's about it.
Jim:It sounds like a lot.
Glenn Sako:And there is just Sarah and myself working on agricultural issues and the food systems.
Jim:Okay. And that sounds like eight years, as has the program, the R&D program been around for many years before that, as well?
Glenn Sako:It is in the County charter and it is a separate department that has an appointed Director and Deputy Director. So, you know, we are a small department. We don't we don't normally get the publicity, like the other departments, because we are kind of working in the background, you know, compared to such as Public Works, or Parks and Recreation, but, you know, our department helps Hawaii County's economy. And it also steps up when projects and issues do not fit the mission of the other departments.
Jim:Sounds, that sounds like it's hard to understand where to spend your time and what to focus on, right? It seems like you're kind of picking up the pieces for all the things that are maybe unmet needs that that are identified, is that a fair statement?
Glenn Sako:I'd say unmet needs, but also the other Departments That's a great example. I mean, I can identify with it because kind of have their mission. And a lot of things that do not fall within it, it's going to be like, well, who's going to who of where I am, it's an issue for sure. And I've tried a variety has the capacity to address it? For instance, you know, feral pigs right now is a big issue, and we've been getting complaints about it. And while the complaints may go to the of things and my neighbors have and so what kinds of programs mayor's office, they do, you know, turn it over to our department, and basically me to look into it and to address the public's concerns, you know, trying to work on solutions or a program to help mitigate the impact of feral pigs on agricultural producers and the neighborhood. are you working on, and with whom, in order to try to address that type of an issue. There are, there are some methods that you know, can be used to take out the feral pigs. However, we also mindful that, you know, the feral pigs have a place in Hawaii's culture. And just off the top of my head, half the people like to feed ʻem and watch them, and the other half wants to get rid of them. And so, as the as a County department, we need to be mindful of this and we try to come up with solutions that have the least impact or the least negative impact. And so we're looking at some issues, some methodologies. Thereʻs this pig brig which can trap up the whole, what we call, sounder or the herd of pigs. And because you have to remove at least 70% of the hogs in a group in order to have impact on their population growth, anything less, and they will continue to grow. So the problem though, with the pig brig is, unless you have a, you can install an opening to drive the pigs out into a, perhaps a trailer some way to remove them, and then you can, you know, euthanize them for so that you can perhaps utilize their meat. From what I've seen in the videos, there is no existing shoot or exit for it right now and so they had to put down the pigs with with firearms. Now, if you're out in the wild doing that, you know, that's fine, but many of these pigs are impacting neighborhoods, and to have gunshot in a neighborhood is then gonna cause a negative reaction from the public. So these are things that we are trying to work on to see how we can best introduce methodologies that would be able to accomplish the purpose but reduce the negative impact from a public perception.
Jim:And if you have half the people that want them and half the people that don't it sounds like it makes it an even more complex puzzle for you to try to manage as the County representative, right? It's hard to keep everyone happy when when you have half that feel one way and half of the opposite, yeah? Right. So that is rather long list of things that you support and work on that I just listed. How do you come up with what that list is, and then what the priorities are?
Glenn Sako:I kind of will based on the my feeling for the different industries. We'll look at areas that I think I can impact with our small budget, and limited time. And, again, you know, we're looking to lift up new industries that can have that have growth potential, and you know, can make an impact. We have existing agricultural industries, such as papaya, macadamia, coffee, that, you know, they're they are established, they have their support in place. They have also support from the University of Hawaii, and so, you know, there's places that they can turn to for support. Something such as aquaculture, or although there is a, there are agricultural agents, there's still, you know, this permitting issue is quite daunting. So that's something that I felt that, you know, I would focus on. Other things that like the invasive species, that's always an issue. I mean, I guess you could consider that feral pigs and invasive species, although, you know, it's been brought over here a long time ago, but we're constantly being having new invasive species being introduced, not only from the mainland, but actually from, you know, the other Counties that have them and have, and we have not received it yet on Hawaii County. So there's a couple of...
Jim:Coqui frogs immediately comes to mind for me, right?
Glenn Sako:That one is that the other counties are concerned about it coming to their county from Hawaii. But, you know, there's the coconut rhinoceros beetle in Oahu, and we are concerned about it being established here on Hawaii Island. So there is Big Island Invasive Species committee has set up traps around ports of entry to make sure that in case any of them should come over, we're trying to get an early detection. There is also devil weed that was recently identified at the racetrack, and also in Puna. And so we are, you know, directing funds to help best to try to eradicate, identify and eradicated as soon as possible.
Jim:So you and Sarah, in your role with with Research and Development have are responsible for the entire island of the Big Island or for the entire County, yeah?
Glenn Sako:That's correct. We are we deal with the count on the County level.
Jim:And are there do you have counterparts on all the islands?
Glenn Sako:Yes, there's Economic Development Departments in the other Counties. And, you know, I've had conversations with a couple of them.
Jim:Because the podcast is, is about all the islands. So like, for example, Lanai and Molokai, do they have agents like you?
Glenn Sako:They would probably come under Maui County, since Maui County oversees those two. So Maui does have quite a robust Economic Development Department then recently, I guess, authorized the establishment of the Department of Agriculture. And although its responsibilities are not the same as the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Jim:I imagine that makes sense, because as you just described, there are issues, invasive species issues on one island that the others may not have at all, and certainly not want, keeping them at a very local level sounds like it's much more efficient, because it's just a matter of identifying the issues and priorities of those issues on a County by County basis is probably the most effective and efficient. So Research and Development, it was actually kind of a surprise to me to hear there's a Research and Development Department, you're kind of the unsung heroes, it sounds like, so maybe it's not that unusual that people don't know that it exists, but, so it sounds like there is actually a lot of research that has to happen. You have to reach out to a number of different agencies to kind of understand what the major issues are in the priorities? Is that a fair statement?
Glenn Sako:No. We don't normally go out and ask the other departments what kind of issues they have that that we might look into for them. That's not what we do. But they will, if they have said agricultural issue, you know, they have reached out to me. The Civil Defense has worked with Sarah on emergency food plan. So, you know, they know who we are. The funny part when you talk about, you know, people not being aware about our department is I actually, in a previous administration, sat down with one of the legislative aides of a new council member. And the aide asked me, Where is your laboratory since you are research and development? And I say, No, we don't have a laboratory, we're not conducting that kind of research. So even within our County, there's some misconceptions about us.
Jim:So it sounds like you identify issues, some of these things you're doing yourselves at the County level, like the permitting you mentioned. But it sounds like you work a lot with other agencies, nonprofits, and University mostly, is that correct? For funds and assistance?
Glenn Sako:Typically, right? Again, because we're a small budget and a small department, we need to access other departments and agencies that have more capacity. So typically, the University of Hawaii is our one of our main research institutions that we would work with, to support their their program. And as long as it is in agreement with what we feel is needed here on this island, we don't have we don't fund all of their projects, we have turned down some that we felt, you know, would not impact our agricultural industry as we feel it should. We also, you know, will work with state and other agencies within the state, such as Department of Health and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture, especially their marketing division. So we've got, you know, a good relationship with these other departments, agencies and organizations to help move our programs forward.
Jim:All your funds that I imagined come through through the County through the tax system, yeah? And then you are sometimes vet different projects and provide resources to those different projects, nonprofits, for example, is that true?
Glenn Sako:Yeah, because we have an annual innovative grant program in which we give the nonprofits the opportunity to submit proposals in different areas within our department. And we have a committee that will review these proposals, grade or rank them, and then you know, those that make the minimum qualifications will the Director will have the final say on whether he will or he or she will approve the ranking for the proposal, and then may also adjust the budget as needed to make it fit within our budget, but still be able to hopefully achieve the purpose of the proposal. And that then goes out to the submitting organization and they have the option, if the budget is reduced, you know, they have they have the option to change their scope to fit the budget or to, you know, they can also turn down the award. So there's that opportunity.
Jim:Can you give some examples of some of the projects that have been funded with the innovation grants?
Glenn Sako:Sure. Recently, one of the biggest projects that we funded this past fiscal year, which just ended June 30, the students at Kaʻu High School some, well the the organization submitted a project to build greenhouses using solar panels to power their aquaponic project. And they were going to set up this aquaponic project in which also included hydroponics as a teaching education center. And then products from this project would be used for the school program, food feed programs and lunch program. And also they are going to distribute that back to the community for those who are in need. So this project was funded to the amount of $75,000 which is because there were three different phases to this project. So that was one of the biggest funding projects that I've seen in a while. We also supported two contracts with the Big Island Invasive Species committee to control devil weed. So that was recently discovered as I mentioned earlier, and so we are trying to identify the areas and to eradicate it as quickly as possible because devil weed spreads very easily it is toxic to livestock. Some people have also experienced allergic reactions coming in contact with the plant and it will take over areas that are bare, and then would also become add fuel to possible range fires. So we are concerned about it getting over to the west side where 1000s of acres of our pastures have been killed by the two line spittle bug. So there's two invasive species here that is potentially impacting our pastures and contributing to the potential for damaging range fires. So that's there are two contracts for that. We're also working with the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources to develop protocols to grow garlic here on Hawaii Island. Now, garlic requires cold temperatures to form the bulb, and so it was successfully done on Oahu. The extension agent Jensen Ueda developed a protocol there. And now they wanted to bring it here to Hawaii. We're very interested in this because we have heard fresh garlic, locally produced fresh garlic had been sold for as much as $7 a pound, and it would be nice to grow our own products here so that we don't have to import or reduce the amount that we import from the mainland, which then reduces the opportunity for other invasive species to hitchhike into our beautiful climate. So we we have a contract with them. They planted garlic in three locations, Hilo, Waimea and Kona. And so far, they've only had, they've only had success, in the Waimea site, and the garlic that the grew was very nice. We are, you know, looking at the what happened at the Kona and the Hilo sites and trying to make adjustments so that we can develop protocols to grow the garlic here at those two other sites.
Jim:Sounds like you have pretty complex algorithm, you have to run everything through to understand what gets funded. All these variables like even within a project, yeah.
Glenn Sako:Sure. I mean, we, you know, not all projects are successful, unfortunately. But you know, we try to see what happened. And if we can make adjustments and you know, see if we can then achieve our what where our goal.
Jim:It must be a struggle every day to understand what the priority is. And those shifting priorities, those priorities, I mentioned shift based on a number of variables.
Glenn Sako:You just got to turn off one part and start moving the other.
Jim:As I understand it, the funds are are for the public good, too, right, so that's why it has to be first and foremost. And so that's that's why, for example, the feral pigs, that's something that's been identified, it's well known and well established, it's a rather complex problem, but I on my farm, for example, as an ag producer, wouldn't go to you directly to try to help with feral pigs normally, is that usually funded through one of these other agencies or nonprofits that are managing it? So I, as a producer really just would see the impact as opposed to going directly to you for funds? Is that accurate?
Glenn Sako:Okay, so as a producer, if you were to come to me directly, and asking me for support for feral pig control, as much as I understand the problem, and can sympathize with it, which you about it, I cannot the county rarely gives funds to an individual producer. I'm just gonna say rarely, I'm not aware of where this, if this has happened, but I'm just gonna say rarely just just to kind of cover my bases, because, you know, we are obligated to work with nonprofits and other fiscal agents. Now, that being said, you know, there was a Department of Agriculture micro grant program last year, that, you know, we we support it, because the funds came down from the USDA, that was run to the State and the State ased the different counties to review the these applications. This was an unusual grant in that this time, yes, the producers who were approved with their proposals would receive the funds directly. And the purpose of the funds was for to increase food production. And increasing food production also ment capping, keeping feral pigs out of your garden or farm so that people could have put in for fencing. Unfortunately, we're still waiting for, you know, this program to get the funds out to the approved producers, which I'm not sure what has happened to them.
Jim:It must be frustrating for everyone, right? Because you have the ag producers asking you"When are the funds going to be here? When are the funds going to be here?" and you're asking the same question yourself and kind of don't have much control over it. Is it? Is that true?
Glenn Sako:Yeah, it's out of our hands. We submitted our recommendations for funding to the Department of Agriculture. My understanding is that they are waiting for the USDA to approve the recommended list. So it's a matter of the USDA gave funds, which moved down. But now we are submitting our reports back up to USDA, and we're still waiting for approval from them. This program is supposed to run for two more years. And so there's actually supposed to be two more rounds of funding. But with this first one being held up, we're not sure what's going to happen to this program.
Jim:And it strikes me that there's a lot of funds available right at the federal, state and local level. However, again, my opinion is that the County probably knows best, like the local knows best what the needs are, and the priorities are, even more so, I would say in Hawaii, maybe even more so than most states, because of the variety of the islands and the segregation of the islands. The County probably knows best, right? As far as the most efficient, or effective utilization of funds. And then, so it almost sounds like your role in helping streamline the process and the paperwork and the funding and getting and prioritization almost seems like the most effective utilization of federal funds. Like if federal funds are divided amongst the states and the states depend on the counties to then effectively manage and implement is that, that strikes me as the most efficient solution for federal funds anyway. That sounds like a lot of what your time is spent doing. Like I think of all the permitting, right, the regulations that it would take to get oysters in Hilo Bay, and it's like, I would give up, right, just trying to think about it. But it sounds like you're in there, just chipping away at it and getting it done.
Glenn Sako:Yeah, if you were to, you know, ask a, someone who's into aquaculture, if they're willing to go through the permitting process, they're gonna say, you know, "What, I don't have the time. I'm, you know, I'm busy working." So I'm not saying that I have the time, but I, I feel like, and I have this vision that we could set up a marine aquaculture park in Hilo Bay. And, you know, there's, I've talked to a couple sources within the industry, and they feel it could be done. They're excited about it, too. So me without my aquaculture experience, I'm willing to do the research and to start taking the steps to do this. And of course, there's still a lot of work to be done, I'm not going to be naive and think that it will be done within a year I'm thinking, you know, because of the environmental assessment or environmental impact statement that needs to be done, there's going to be a lot of hoops that we're going to have to guide this whole process through.
Jim:You have hope and vision. And and you're tenacious right? Youʻre onipaʻa I guess. Make sure you're steadfast and just one foot in front of another, right.
Glenn Sako:Yeah, and you know, again, the funny part, and people tease me about this, but I don't eat oysters. I'm not into that. There's another thing I raised other plants that I don't eat, but I give them away. So here's another thing is oysters that I'm willing to put my time and effort into, but I might eat one. Someday, when it's, when we get the permit then we love that first oyster, I'm like, maybe I'll eat it.
Jim:I think he should, I think he should, but especially if it's a number of years and a lot of heart ache to get there. I mean, all these programs and things you're working on to me are fascinating as an ag producer. So is there a website or someplace online I can monitor the all the things that you're working on and the status or anything like that?
Glenn Sako:Well, you know, we do have a website, and it's found on the on the County website. Unfortunately, we don't have our technician to update the site on a regular basis, we are looking to fill that position at this time. And so many of the, I was just looking at it recently, you know. A lot of it is still from the COVID times and we need to start cleaning up that website. So hopefully, I'm going to say, because we worked for the county, maybe six months, we'll have someone on board who can help me start to clean up this site and start posting more relevant up to date information.
Jim:If I'm an ag producer kind of interested in the feral pig issue, for example, but actually, literally, yesterday I got an email or ad pop up in one of my social media feeds about the pig brig, right? Is and that may be exactly what you were describing the same vendor that you were talking about for the feral pigs and ways to capture them. And so I see that ad and I think, you know, is it worth the$2,500 that they want to charge for the big brig? And will that be effective and all the issues that you just described run through my mind? So yeah, if it's an issue you're working on, I would much rather wait for you to come up with a better solution that I know is going to be as effective as possible. So if I wanted to find out what the status was of that, or ask more about that, would I reach out to you or, again, I don't want you to be inundated because that takes time away from you working on solutions, rather than answering my questions, but I don't know what you suggest.
Glenn Sako:I would, at this time, say they should contact me and see, like, I can give you my, I prefer email.
Jim:And I can list that. I can list that in the show notes too of the podcast. Just have your email, if you're okay, being emailed, then that's probably a lot more efficient and answering
Glenn Sako:Then, you know, I do welcome inquiries, because that calls, yeah? way, I know that I need to kind of know what the public or my my stakeholders are thinking and what their concerns concerns are. You know, like they say, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Well, well, not always, but at least I need to know, you know, what is what is concerning the agricultural producers, so it does help.
Jim:Okay, and then if there are things that Sarah might might be dealing with it, you're not, then you can just forward that along.
Glenn Sako:We do forward the emails between the two of us that we feel the our, you know, the other person would be more appropriate to answer.
Jim:You know, off the top here, you have some examples of things that, you know, if you're more Sarahʻs kuleana than yours?
Glenn Sako:Well, you know, Sarah, as the Food System Specialist is basically working on this food system in Hawaii County. And she's also, you know, into, like, food safety, she is a certified trainer. So, you know, those kinds of issues. I kinda like tell people from the point when you harvest the product, and it becomes herʻs.
Jim:So easy. After the first cut, right?
Glenn Sako:Yeah, I, I'm the where you plant and grow it, and then once it's harvested, it's her. But no, we're not, we don't have this thing, responsibilities like that we do work on issues and stuff like that. So...
Jim:Your priorities and focus change regularly, it sounds like your roles may have to shift a little bit based on those priorities too.
Glenn Sako:Sure. You have to be flexible, because you know, whatever is the current issue, could be, you know, quickly changed by something else.
Jim:Just in closing, any suggestions to ag producers out there about if they're dealing with some of these stressors or want want to move towards some of these innovations? Any anything you'd want to share to help them know how to best work with you?
Glenn Sako:Well, first of all, I'd say that, you know, they should join an organization that meets their needs. Many of these organizations help to promote their products for marketing purposes, export. Network that allows you to network with the members to help help you with your business. The other part is, you know, to contact the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, when you have problems, pests, or you don't know, basically, you don't know what to do with the situation. They have the extension agents, they've got the support researchers, you know, whose job is to work with producers. So typically, technical assistance is delivered by the extension service.
Jim:Is it correct that you help fund some of the CTAHR positions? Is that true?
Glenn Sako:We have made that proposal to CTAHR that when we when we're working on this Build Back Better regional challenge phase to application. We contracted a consultant who did a 24 hour survey of the needs and extension personnel was the number one hit result that we got so the Director Adams was willing to fund a half positions for two agents to increase the extension service here on this island. We need to negotiate this with the with the incoming Dean while the Dean Comerford just retired and so there is a interim dean. And we need to since things are kind of settling down because of the end of the fiscal year, we'll be reaching out to them and starting to negotiate on these two positions.
Jim:Thanks, Sarah and Glenn for sharing details of the work of a County R&D Economic Development Office and how that relates to local agricultural production. As Glenn mentioned, each county operates independently in these roles, so while these discussions focus on Hawaii County, and Hawaii Island, there will be other options for other counties and islands. But we hope that this shed some light on the role that a County R&D office in Hawaii can serve to support ag producers throughout the islands. All sorts of things I now understand I didnʻt understand before we talked, thank you so much for sharing all of this. Because I think, you know, sometimes I think the County gets a bad rep., yeah, for things taking too long, or, you know, but I think clearly, you have a lot of variables you have to and a lot of audiences you have to keep happy or whose needs have to be met. So it's not a simple process and it's only you two, stretched very thin, trying trying to manage and work with all these agencies and all these priorities, and the change in in administration that impacts you as well as federal funds don't happen as promised, and it's not your fault, right. But but all those variables, I think your as, as I was describing earlier, right, your your boots on the ground, you're closest to the problem of all these agencies that have these funds. So I think people see you first or think of you first when they're frustrated. So I think itʻs, and I think it's important for people to understand all the complexities of your roles.
Glenn Sako:Thank you.
Jim:And thanks for offering to share your email address. So I'll do that as well as the County website in the show notes if people want to go there and ask you questions. But I think, you know, thank you for all the work you're doing and being on the frontline of trying to do some of these these innovative things on the islands. So I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.
Glenn Sako:Youʻre welcome. Appreciate it.
Jim:The intention of this podcast series is to create a safe space for respectful and inclusive dialogue. With people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making accessible the food we share together. The diversity of voices, perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding, to spark creative problem solving, and provide insight into the complexities of our agricultural system. If you, our listeners, have experiences with Hawaii agricultural ecosystems, from small holder farms to large even including multinational agricultural industrial companies, or anywhere in between, and you would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your voices and perspectives