In this episode we talk with Tyson Banasihan founder of E Ulu Farms on the island of Kauai. Tyson discusses his ongoing efforts to collect and preserve different and rare varieties of kalo (Hawaiian taro), staying connected to his cultural roots through farming, the challenges of being a modern day kalo farmer, and the intrinsic moral value of growing food for his family and community.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources, and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Check out E Ulu Farms on Instagram
Find out more about us:
In this episode we talk with Tyson Banasihan founder of E Ulu Farms on the island of Kauai. Tyson discusses his ongoing efforts to collect and preserve different and rare varieties of kalo (Hawaiian taro), staying connected to his cultural roots through farming, the challenges of being a modern day kalo farmer, and the intrinsic moral value of growing food for his family and community.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources, and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Check out E Ulu Farms on Instagram
Find out more about us:
The views, information or opinions expressed during the Seeds of Wellbeing series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, our funders, and any affiliated organizations involved in this project. Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing"Voices From the Field" podcast, featuring voices of Hawaii agriculture producers for Hawaii agriculture producers. These podcasts are made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, also known as CTAHR. And the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project and is supported by a grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Alex:Aloha mai kakou. My name is Alex Wong. I'm with the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, the Seeds of Well Being project and I'm here today with Tyson Banasihan. We're at his lo'i, where he grows kalo. So thanks again if you could introduce yourself and share a little bit with us about the name of your farm and what inspired you to get started.
Tyson:Aloha, my name is Tyson Banasihan, kalo farmer here in Waimea Valley the name of my farm is E Ulu Farms. And I guess to start the reason why I named it E Ulu is not only we grow food but we growin' more than just food out here. It's kind of like a mentality. We're growing as people. So that's kind of where my focus is as far as wanting to farm so. My farm is not for profit. I don't sell anything here. The profit I looking for is more of a moral one versus money so the goal out here as a farmer for me and why I wanted to start doing this is first off my children, I wanted them to to grow up in a lifestyle of knowing that there's more than then working and gaining money to live you know there's other ways to live. And to be sovereign in our food security is really important. I just want them to know that there's there's another way to live versus killing yourself every day on hard working job paying Uncle Sam and buying produce that is imported here from the mainland. There's more value in that you know as far as I think that's the first step in in being sovereign here in the Kingdom, the Kingdom of Hawaii. But yeah, this is me. I first started farming a little over two years ago, kind of jumped around in places not really finding too much success but you know I just we just ho'omau, we persevered kept pushing trying to keep the main thing the main thing and we landed here you know. Fortunately my wife has family here, ties and we were able to, based off of my actions of wanting to farm so bad and kind of doing the taking the right steps and landing in the right place, so yeah. Okay, so this is my first loʻi that we decided to wehe, yeah. So even he two loʻi. This is the first one I decided for canoeing. This on I kind of use this one as an as an one nursery, see. When I first started to farm kind of my thing was I love kalo, all shapes and sizes, no matter what variety, mostly Hawaiian variety but the history behind the different varieties is what kind of caught my eye and once I started piecing all the different varieties of kalo like, I love this one, I love this one, but all for different reasons. I've got about 30 Hawaiian varieties in this loʻi, going from Kapaaloa to Eleele Makoko to Maui Lehua, Lehua Maoli, to Uahiapele. I get, check this one out right hear. This one is the one I trying to kind of, I trying to multiply, this is Piko Lehua Apei or apei. This is the only variety that get these appendages underneath. Now this variety is a really ono poi variety, part of the royal red poi varieties. How and why do they get the appendages I do not know. But as far as people that know their varieties Piko is, it was grown that way. Uncle Jerry like to say that aerodynamics, it stands up real well in the wind, so it doesn't tear or rip.
Guest:Do you do cross breeding or genetics?
Tyson:I don't. I, you know, for me, it's cool. But I'm all about, because if we start to crossbreed these varieties, yeah, and then all these original native varieties tend to get lost, you know, and I mean, everybody's gonna want to keep growing these hybrid because it's easier, you know. It goes bigger, faster or, or whatnot and then you start to lose all those varieties like
Guest:so you're just trying to keep it pure.
Tyson:I'm trying to keep it pure. I'm trying to keep it going. So like some of these varieties are really hard to find. Like this Piko Lehua Apei, as was good thing for me is one thing is in this I don't want to say business because I don't sell kalo, but one thing in this lifestyle is networking is really important. So I've made a lot of friends because of my want and need to be a farmer. So luckily for me, I met the right people and he hooked me up with some with somebody who just, three he was able to give. I got a lot of Mana Ulu as well. Right now I'm nursing Mana Eleele, which is another one that's hard to find. That's not a quick kalo. That I get at home. But yeah, this is my first lo'i. If you notice, these varieties here are younger, but it's not as tall as the one back here, the Kapaaloa. Like a lot of these varieties came from [] Mala'ai which is dryland gardens, so that they're still going through that transition from dryland to wetland. That's why you've noticed they're not as big as, as you know that the variety back there Kapaaloa, which is, you know, been grow, been going in the lo'i. So they're still trying to get acclimated. They're still going pretty well, just not as well as they can in wetland, which is fine.
Alex:So you don't sell it to...
Tyson:I don't sell No, this...
Alex:Wouldn't it be more profitable to sell?
Tyson:Well, for me....
Alex:Look at this haole! Profit. Because it helps you living-wise.
Tyson:Yeah, yeah. 100% It does. But for me, I think the value of the profit that I looking for is less of a materialistic one and more of like a moral one, you know, because I have two little kids, and I'm trying to teach them that you don't have to rely on these big, what you call, produce companies, commercial companies, the government. You can grow your own food brah. And if you like talk about Kanaka Maoli and Hawaiian sovereignty I think it starts right here. Because what is sovereignty? You gotta learn what is sovereignty? The first thing in sovereignty is you self governed, right? You can self govern yourself. Independent, and you independent. How are you going to be independent and self govern and if you cannot even grow your own food? You gotta rely on somebody else to feed you. If you can feed yourself, that's the first thing. So you know, my kids they get kanaka, they get koko. So it was really important for me like you saying, to bring your kids back to your roots, how it was for me, is important for me to make sure they grew up living the roots and learning their roots. Because my wife she from Molokai, and if you know anything about Molokai, shoot the high school their mascot is farmers. They born and raised, born and raised farmers so she did this she did this from when she was one pepe, one baby. All her life was a chore for her. So it's important for me to make sure my kids know where they come from because as one Hawaiian this is this is where they come from. They never come up from the hula. They never come up from the wars. He came up from the kalo plant right here.
Guest:I have a Japanese friend in California, She's born in San Jose, but her parents are from Molokai.
Tyson:Oh right on.
Guest:And they moved to San Jose. And the funny thing is, is that she now lives in Stockton, which is close to us, but she married a farmer. Japanese farmer in the valley. He came to visit Alex earlier this year.
Tyson:Right on, what kind of farming?
Alex:Sugar beets was his specialty. But he did all kine, corn, beans, edamame, daikon, some some like the you know, mainland sweet potato kine stuff. Yeah.
Tyson:Okay.
Guest:So I gotta tell her that story.
Tyson:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, so he's, he was trying to encourage he's trying to encourage Alex to do the farming and all that kind of stuff.
Alex:He's like, my mom's like, you know, Japanese. Yeah. So like her older brother in school in school, he's like two years older so.
Tyson:Okay. Right on. Yeah, I mean, farming. I mean, it goes back not just for the Hawaiian race, but I think all races. Mesopotamian, you know, all those those ancient ancient races of people, they farmed. That was their first source of food, you had to. If you couldn't farm, you gotta hunt, if you couldn't hunt, you gotta farm. If you can't do nothing, you go die. Yeah, you know 100% So yeah, this is the first lo'i. This is this one I named after my son Kulani
Alex:your youngest youngest?
Tyson:my boy. Yeah. I think kind of a reason. The reason why I named it that is a lot of, you know all the names that come to you, they just come to you, you know, you kind of get that feeling where you like you want to call it something. And when my son when I first had opened it lo'i, he'd just go run up and down this lo'i. And he loves it brah. He loves having the lepo all over himself and being soaking wet before we go home so I just always laugh and have fun in this lo'i so I call this one Kulani. And yeah, this is the first one. I still learning. Choke for learn. I'm a young farmer. You know, I haven't been a kalo farmer for too long, but there's a lot to learn trust me. a lot to learn. So, this is my second lo'i. This lo'i right here I just recently planted about a month and a half two months ago. Starting from this side, I'm going down that way . Shout out to the Hashimoto's in Hanapepe Valley for huli. A lot of this is Lehua varieties. Po'e Lehua and Mauli Lehua. Some Kapaaloa in the middle there and then I get some, some varieties of pu from here and that was ready to go I just planted them here. Manalauloa, Kaiuliuli. But as you can see, it's overgrown. So I've been spending a lot of time trying to weed. Yeah, when you get a lot of water the weeds tend to grow a lot faster. So I was supposed to be left but that never happened. But yeah, this is this lo'i I called Kaipo after my daughter, because she actually helped me plant this lo'i. Me my wife and my daughter, Abigail, her middle name is Kaipo. And she she at the age where she likes to dance. And you know, you know like the the culture now is like tick tock and whatnot. So while we were planting she busts out my my wife's phone took a video of her dancing in the lo'i. I've got it posted on my Instagram. So I decided to name it Kaipo after her.
Guest:So how do you how do you get the water to feed into here?
Tyson:me was, this was all trees at one point. So when I first came here, and I looked at everything, everything under all that brush and trees were intact already. All the pipelines that was laid from the previous previous farmers were here already. It was a matter of me uncovering everything and just to wehe the 'aina, open um up. And so I tried to do it by hand, really tough tasks. And I was lucky to have a lot of support, you know, in my community or all my friends and my family. So I got a lot of help and and I was able to get someone to bring a couple tractors here. And it is opened it up in like half a day. Where I was I was spending, you know, months trying to clear it by hand and only get like a quarter of the way. Tractors came and they cleared everything. Yeah. So yeah, they came, they cleared everything and tilled everything for me. And I just opened up the pipes. I think when that was when I was wondering kind of the questions that Alex will be asking me. I noticed one of the questions were, what are some of the challenges of being a kalo farmer? And I think first for me personally, it's time finding time because I have a full time job. Monday through Thursday, 7 to 5:30 I'm a, by trade. I'm a painter. Oh, yeah. So my free time I'm a Kalo farmer. You know, even after work, if i gotta I'm a kalo farmer, you know? So that's why you notice if I had all the time in the world, brah this would be all trimmed and nice and short and you know this lo'i would be full already but yeah one of the challenges that time and then the second challenge is water brah, the wai. Yeah so when I first came here the auwai had just enough water coming down to feed uncle's patch and my friends patch next us and I was going to open up lo'i so one thing that I was worried about was taking too much water from them because my pipe for this lo'i is up here, above this one. So first thing that I did once this was tilled up was I walked up this this ditch line if you want to check it out, I'll show you guys where we get our water from.
Guest:So it's not fed from the river
Tyson:It is but way up high. So ancient Hawaiian times well as you as you guys know, this is Menehune ditch yeah, the famous Menehune ditch. But this system was built the team wanted our water to get to their lo'i down here in the valley around the cliff, so they asked the Menehune to build them an auwai, and part of that was building a wall that would suspend the water along the cliff by the river up there. So there used to be a damn way up high in the valley that fed the auwai, but now because of all the diversions yeah when the sugar cane companies came. It kind of it kind of messed everything up. That old system got broken down somehow, and there's a diversion, it runs high up in a canyon and it runs along this clip up here. This edge of the valley, this cliff side there's a ditch that runs along it and it runs all the way around this cliff all way down the north side to all the corn companies. So that's where we're getting our water now. So one of the farmers I'm guessing you can call me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing that kalo the farmers where like hey that's my water, so they went up there and stuck their pipe inside that was it, we need water for our lo'i. That's what I guessing. I mean if I was in those times that's what I would have done. So every day since then I've cleaned this ditch, work on these trees. I'd go all the way the auwai all the way along the road, it goes all the way up this way and then there's a pipe that feeds it. It goes all up this cliff and I'll go up there and I'll clean that intake and I'll make sure the waters flowing every week. I'll do that twice a week just to make sure we get enough water to feed our lo'i. We're pretty much the last guys on the auwai that gets water. There's more lo'i up this way on the road.
Guest:So when the plantations shut down they didn't shut the water thing.
Tyson:No because there's a corn companies on down on the manau side.
Guest:That's still there?
Tyson:Yeah the corn the corn companies all at the end I think it's Syngenta still yet?
Alex:Becks left. They left. They were down to like a nine man crew and then a five man crew, well people crew. Right now it's Hartung. So I think Syngenta their land was taken over by Hartung which is mainland seed corporate farming and then right here, Corteva.
Tyson:Oh Corteva that's right.
Alex:Corteva had kind of taken over the some of the pioneer Syngenta I think some of that that was leased from J Robinson.
Guest:so those guys didn't make a stink that you guys were
Tyson:I wasn't even born when that was when I was mean. So tapped in here? this this system here is fairly old. I just when I came into this valley, actually, when I came into this valley, I was looking at a place in Makaweli. And so one of the things for me is respect. Yeah, and when you go up Makaweli Valley, you're gonna pass through people's properties and whatnot. So I organized like a like a meet with Paleke. Paleke brought me into one of their meetings were they are had all the old timers, actually right next door there. They're all hanging out for this meeting for about the water. So he wanted to bring me in, you know, I introduced myself kind of let them know what I wanted to do. And they asked what the plot was and they were telling me that super swampy, hard to farm. people tried to farm that acutal plot I was looking at and gave up so they recommended checking out Uncle Julian []. Back in the back about 10 years ago, it used to be farmed by the Apo family []. And a couple other brothers. So he talked to Julian for me and Uncle Julian got in contact with me, and that's how it all started.
Guest:So that's good, because you got the older generation
Tyson:Yeah so I just came in after that. I kept asking alot of questions, that's kind of my thing. I started questioning, see how things work here. Make sure I do everything I need to do to stay in line here, and help out the older generations. That's why I choose to clean the ditches, it's hard work brah, and these guys have been doing it for years and years. And now its my turn, for to try and make it easier from them. As they probably did when they was younger. Yeah so where was I? The water yeah, it runs, it comes from the top of the canyons back there, it runs all the way to the corn companies and what's sad is that these corn companies, we dont even see that corn brah.
Guest:Where's it going?
Tyson:One of their experiments. Is some of the corn get sold here?
Alex:It's seed corn. So what that means is they're they're trying to genetically engineer a superior DNA in each strain in each their variety. Just like how we get varieties here. Yeah, for kalo. They get varieties for corn yeah? That can grow better in Africa or grow better in South America,
Guest:That goes back to the question I asked in the beginning, the cross breeding.
Alex:But the thing is, are they growing a fish out of water over there? Is corn meant to be grown in Hawaii?
Tyson:I mean, okay, I think that's a good question. There's a lot of things that can grow here. You know, that's kind of how Hawaii came to be Hawaii today. You know, the haoles came and they saw, wow this land is fertile its beautiful, you know, I can grow some frickin food over here and make some money. You know, and that's sugar, you know, and that's why you get the sugar plantations, pineapple plantation, Dole on the east side, you know, and you get all this corn, all this sugarcane on this side and whatnot. And, you know, you can grow anything over here, you know, really, and that's fine, too, and that's fine with me anyways. But if you go in something that we're not going to even eat here, I don't really see the point you know what I mean?
Alex:To answer your question, though. They're growing corn to make seeds. So that they can bag it in mass quantities and sell it around the world. This is basically a seed generator over here. This is this is their incubator.
Tyson:This company is not from here though, so the revenue goes back to the mainland. The revenue doesn't stay here so that doesn't really help our economy.
Alex:All the people here get is a paycheck.
Tyson:Yeah they get one paycheck that is taxed. It goes back to the mainland, you know what I mean ah. Uncle Sam, Uncle Sam, you know and Honolulu. Yeah. And then I mean, when you look at it that way, like, is it really worth sending millions of gallons out that way for that? You know, when the water could be in our, in our stream systems, you know where it's supposed to be. running to people's lo'i's, you know.
Alex:So someone might argue, oh, it's for the greater good of the world. But then my response to that would be, but what about the local people? You're trying to save the world? You cannot even save your neighbor, or the people who live there.
Tyson:Yeah. So we will take advantage of these these native people here. Yeah. And for the greater good of the world, we're gonna destroy the culture and their aina. And then when and when everything is all depleated, ah we'll go some place on and be strong, move on. And then not gonna have nobody left. Who you gonna save? what world? Not gonna have one world.
Alex:And someone else will become the next victim.
Tyson:Exactly so.
Alex:to be exploited.
Tyson:We gotta really look at
Guest:Well, the other problem is, is that if you, I don't even know if they look at it scientifically, if you crossbreeding to try to find varieties, like you were saying, you're reducing the purity of the natural growth of what is the plant. So for the profit margin that they're getting, trying to do that they're actually bringing down the nutritional value, exactly, of the food, which is not doing the greater good of the global, even if they sell it.
Alex:Well that's with anything. With livestock with dogs, with kalo, with cannabis, you want to have some variety, you want to have some diversity, right? Because everything has its own its own purpose, its own use.
Tyson:Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know too much about cannabis, but I think food wise, as far as like the food crops here in Hawaii, throughout the generations and centuries of it's growth It has natural mutation you know. So I think over the years we have the varieties that are meant to be where they're supposed to be. Like talking about kalo yeah, you like cross breed these varieties to be better, you know, when it's closer to the makai or where it's closer to the ocean, where the water is a little bit salty or the soil is a little bit salty. We have those varieties, you know? Opukai. The Ka'i varieties. Paakai We have those varieties already. And if you if you look up Jerry Kuanui, he talks a lot about this and 100% Agree, we already have the variety. Once upon a time, Hawaiians had about 300 native varieties of kalo, you know how much there is today, there's about 80...82, 83, something like that.
Alex:Wow, less than 100
Tyson:Less than 100. And some of those aren't even Hawaiian varieties include, like the Japanese and Chinese varieties that came during the plantation time.
Alex:you know, the Bun Long, the famous Bun Long, the
Tyson:So we have the varieties, that's kind of why I'm still profitable one growing it. And there's varieties that are still being discovered. I mean, if you go places like Kanalau, Hanakapiai, look at the cliff sides brah, there's kalo growing. And a lot of people don't even know what they are. I mean, varieties are discovered every day. I think we should spend more time learning about these varieties versus trying to create new ones. And like I said, probably in ancient Hawaiian times, I know already Hawaiians, they know how for crossbreed, that's probably how they got these varieties, you know, and to be trying to interbreed them with varieties that aren't even from here it might, there might be some problems there. Yeah, you know, I'm not 100% against them, I just I don't know how I feel about them yet because of what I'm trying to do as far as preserving native varieties you know. It could get lost, native varieties could get lost when you do that. And they naturally crossbreed anyways, yeah, because what a lot of people don't know is kalo gives a flower and when those flowers pollinate each other, it creates a crossbreed. Natural forces and Hawaiians knew that. they know how to get the flower off the kalo, because it doesn't give every time but it's under certain, certain circumstances where you get those flowers and I 100% know the Hawaiians knew what they was doing brah. Those kanaka maoli back in those times, they know what they was doing. And they created the varieties that we have today. I just I just here for cherish'em, enjoy 'em, share 'em, and bring awareness of them. Yeah, we should. We should be growing more native varieties. I mean, hybrid is fine. But we got to make sure we have those native varieties too. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's some varieties that a lot of people haven't seen in a long time. I had my in laws here a few months ago, my father in law who, you know, is somebody I learned a lot from and they live the lifestyle every single day on Molokai Hālawa Valley. So he came here and he's like brah I haven't seen this variety for so long? How got this you know, and that brought joy to my heart because it's like, brah dad you like take um? You like take you like grow in Hālawa, take um. You know, so yeah thats part of the profit I was talking about the moral profit for me.
Guest:So interesting. Okay, if they're from Molokai is that kalo there totally different variety than what you have here?
Tyson:Theirs? No actually, a lot of the Lehua varieties that I have is from Molokai. And no, they're all the same. They're just grown in different areas, different environments.
Guest:So this doesn't, it's not specific to a specific island?
Tyson:No it's not specific to a certain island, yeah. They're all grown on every island all these varieties.
Alex:Kalo is like people. It's like people. They live, they get their own genetics. The way I kind of right now in my given my limited knowledge right now, the way I kind of see genetics and breeding and preservation right now it's kind of like painting, right, painting with different colors. And so you look at your like your pure breeds or your landrace varieties, right? The ones that are unique, phenotypically unique. Physically they look different. Genetically, they can respond different to pests, right? Humidity, sunshine or shade. Mildew and even like how much of a beating they can take from wind or a storm. And when you kind of leave something alone for a while, and it just kind of breeds with itself. That's where You get more of your your unique, like, traits. Yeah, yeah. And eventually those they've become so ingrained in the DNA that they stick around for generations and they become more and more the same with each other. So that's how you get like your, your landrace. Or your your breeds. You're pure breeds. And so those are like the primary colors yeah, when you painting. Like you get the primary ones like the red, the green, and the blue, and the yellow, and then you got to mix those to make other colors like the purples. right, the colors between. And those would be more like our hybrids, yeah. And it's easy to make hybrids, but it's difficult to go backwards, and get the red and the blue and the yellow out of the brown.
Tyson:That is the fear, you know, for me is they get lost. Yeah. That was one good analogy, brah. Yeah, cuz you cannot go back once you breed them, and you lost that, that primary color, then you cannot go back, and bring em out you know. But there's a phenomenon that I learned recently from Anthony De luz, Uncle Anthony. And I was talking to him about, because I was looking for Piko Lehua Opihi, and he's like, brah I used to have choke. you know. And then he, he was recommending me for check one of his videos on that variety specific and he talked about the kalo would ka huli, you know, which would revert back to its original form, which is surprising, because you don't really hear about that. And so he would have that Piko Lehua Opihi and he would go down to the keikis and you look, no more appendages. No more the piko. just look like one green kalo, you know. So he said that might be from climate change. A lot of factors could factor into that or the kalo is just not happy. You know? So, or it's trying to, yeah, like climate change is trying to acclimate towards that again, you know.
Alex:it was like, shocked, yeah,
Tyson:Based off of what the weather's doing. It's trying to revert back to try and strengthen itself.
Alex:It would be like taking one Hawaiian and put him in Alaska or something.
Tyson:Yeah, his skin would come light, yeah. You know what I mean?
Guest:Darwin was onto something when he went to the Galapagus. Because he looked at plants, he looked at birds. And just based on their area, their natural selection. You had the finches that had developed different types of beaks, right? Same principle. It's based on nature. There wasn't a man coming in...
Tyson:Adaptation yeah. Yeah. They'll adapt. So you get a lot of those going on. So
Alex:It's, it's a natural, I think the term is genetic drift. So it's a natural course. Like if you just let a river go, however, it finds its way naturally like that's kind of how the DNA figures itself out based on its environment. It gets comfortable. You know, it adapts. And that's how you get like some finches with with sharp short beaks and some with long, pointy beaks. It's because they kind of stayed in their zone and they weren't negatively affected to disrupt the line the bloodline?
Guest:Yeah. So that's nature's natural selection.
Alex:It is it is. And then the resilient ones, the strong ones and the adoptable ones, they continue to pass on their genes to the next generation. So kalo is like us, or we are like kalo.
Tyson:Yeah. Yeah, well, that's that's why the Kanaka they get one tie one tight connection to this plant. That's why it's very important that we're still growing this, these varieties and teaching the history behind'em because like, I was telling you, the Hawaiian race, you know, we believe to had come from this plant itself. If there's one thing it's health. especially for young farmers. Luckily, for me, I get all these uncles around me that's been doin um for generations, and I get to I get to gain that on what we call 'ike, that 'ike kupuna, which is knowledge that is you wont find in books, it's passed on through generations of doing something, you know, so I get that and a lot of stuff that I've learned is to ma ka hana ka'ike. You learn as you go. that's kind of my learning curves and whatnot and how I came to, to know what I know today, which is not even compared to what I could know in 10 years of doing this because you learn something every day brah. You know, whether it's farming, it's mental, it's physical, whatever it is, so much to learn.
Alex:Learning from mistakes and from problems.
Tyson:100%. But I got some kalo for you guys. If you guys, well, we got to pull them. I don't know if you want to get in, if you like get in Alex.
Alex:I brought my Tobbies and he has some water shoes too
Guest:we have to take a picture for the Christmas card
Alex:Oh yeah my mom wanted a photo
Guest:We can get a photo of us pulling the kalo.
Tyson:Let's go by that first lo'i over there. It's a little nicer and get shade. Here's the variety I was telling you about. Kapaaloa. This is the one that does the best. You know this is still super tall. It's right about 12 months, close the 12 months but all the i'o's are sticking out of the ground already. And on my first test pull, from what I see they're ready to go so I just started pulling. The were ready thats what I told rock already actually. So I just kept going. we've got a lot of kalo to eat a lot of kalo to share. So I've been steadily pulling every week. Last week, I pulled kalo for Malama Kauai, donate to them for their kupuna distribution. It's is part of the work that I'm trying to do is sharing with the community.
Guest:So how do you know when it's ready?
Tyson:So there's a couple of things, you can go by months, you know, remember the dates you planted and typically kalo mature and they're ready at about between 9 to 12 months based on variety. So this variety here, from what I've learned is this can actually stay in the ground for a long time in the lo'i, roughly I think the longest I heard was like 14 months, 14 months so yeah without palahu, without rotting, you know. Typically for me when I look at a kalo and when it's ready is the first thing I'll look at is if the kalo is sticking out of the ground
Guest:oh so you actually see it
Tyson:In the lifecycle of kalo it'll get super super tall. Yeah, and eventually it'll get really tall and then it's going to start to shrink down and then you'll start to think "oh is it dying?" but no, what it's doing is it's taking it's focusing all it's energy to the corm, the i'o, we call the meat. and it's growing that. Sor, if think this is tall, this kalo were not pulling this brah. It shrunk down and then the kalo started to stick out of the ground so that's the first thing I noticed. it shrunk down and I look, the kalo is sticking out the ground, so I did a test pull. And the first one I pulled I weighed it, it was like three or four pounds so we're getting some some nice size kalo. Some decent size kalo. and this lo'i I didn't really fertilize too much. I think in the beginning I tilled up phosphorus just to kind of get that root system going. But these lo'i's weren't planted for like 10 years. Yeah it sat for 10 years so you dont really have to fertilize yeah yeah you can just till this up make sure all the organic matter breaks down, you flood it, and then you know when the bubbles start rising from the lepo then you know it's ready for kalo. We decided for kanu here, went down this way, and this variety actually did the best. This and the Lehua Mauli I have here. We probably couldn't grow better because of the shade so now it's out there It'll grow a lot better but yeah. This is Kapaaloa. I guess if you like know the story behind the name of Kapaaloa, because Hawaiians named their varieties for a reason yeah. So this is a Kapaaloa. When it was discovered, it was planted it was grown and but what I learned and I've heard, and I might be wrong, but how in the ku'i competition and what that is they'll pound the kalo yeah and thy were were short on kalo so this farmer brought this variety and it took so long to pound because it was so hard that's where he got his name because pa'a means solid, solid or hard you know so and laa means long or long time you know, or a lot. Ku'i pa'a loa. Yeah so Kapa'aloa, the things stay hard long time, basically. it's hard for ku'i, it's a long time to pound it because it's so hard, Kapa'aloa. But I love this variety. It's kind of similar to Lehua where you get that dark colored poi, and when it when it poha, when it rise, it sours, it turns pink. Yeah, so there's a lot to learn brah about this variety because there's only a handful of variety that turn red when sours. Those are usually the best varieties. And it's super sweet. you can eat this like kalo pa'a. Just a little bit of salt a little bit of salt if you like you know particularly little oil you know you can make, I know lot of people they can make kalo poke. That's what I like to do when I eat kalo pa'a sometimes you know we're drinking beers talking story is good pupu, you know throw some [] inside and some pa'akai. perfect. little bit sesame oil top it off. But um yeah, if you like we can get inside we could pull some kalo.
Alex:Yeah, yeah. I brought my knife.
Tyson:Yeah, I get extra knife too if you guys need. You just pull whatever you like take home, however much you like. Yeah shoots. So if you get tobbies, can get your tobbies now and then I'll give a demonstration on particularly how for huki kalo, we call. harvest is huki, yeah. So I'll show you how I huki kalo. There's many different ways but there's a way that I like to do it.
Alex:Yeah, shoots let's do it.
Tyson:The weeds haven't grow back, I let it keep the water high, we'll be all right. You guys ready. Yeah. Go slow take your time. Try to keep one wide stance, it tends to help from falling down. Keep a wide stance, look like one cowboy as I like to say.
Guest:Old age does not help.
Tyson:So when we huki kalo, typically when you given the way you your harvest is set up from when you kani your kalo, yeah. So typically I like to plant um not too deep, just enough to where the suction holds the stem in the water and what and the reason why I like to do that is is most of the kalo is in the water. Yeah so when it's time for huki I can just pick that thing right up and boom, and we ready. We planted this a little bit on a deeper side so you come in you break the roots like this. Typically the heel will break the root. get on the plant. so you can do this with your feet. I know a lot of a lot of people they like for use like o'o lidat. But, I like to do this way. Either way is fine. Yeah you break the roots you notice the plants start to move around a little bit, make sure she' lookin good. I like take the ball of my feet like this, boom, and then I'll kick um over just like that. Then I'll start with his kicking outside. Try not to grab too high because I'm this variety of notice is soft the stem. Yeah so it might snap, so when reach down and grab try and see if you can get a grip on the io of the kalo. Go like this and pull um right up like that. Then just have to wash 'em off, what they call the a'a, the roots. No mind just leave um in the water, we pick um up later. So start with the outside.
Alex:It's how you expand your your inventory.
Tyson:Yeah this is the keiki right here. There's a stipulation with that, because I hear alot of kupunas they tell, not kupuna but yeah kupuna and alot of old time farmers and they'll tell, that they don't even grow the makua. They only re-grow the huli from the keiki.
Alex:Because they're stronger
Tyson:Yeah, and they grow better, or they get better potential. Typically retire the old man, eh? Or the old lady, you retire 'em, eh?, But I don't know, I like to try them all. I mean, I don't like to waste, eh? Plus I get I trying to expand, so the more huli I get the better. So we get all these out So we got one decent size kalo right here. So, remember when I was telling you about it'll grow super tall and big and they'll shrink down and you notice, and a lot of farmers call this hips, yeah, you can kinda' see the kalo's lifecycle kinda' what it's been thorough, yeah? It's see how it's wider on the bottom and skinny up here and where it shrunk down, yeah? And with this variety I notice I get a lot of like deformed looking iʻo, but this variety is because it gives a lot of flowers brah. Yeah, this variety right here when I first started growning 'em they was all going off with flowers and all I would smell all day workin' on there is flowers. So that's one of the things I noticed about this variety was the energy is going towards making the flower. If you look at the bumps right here I notice this is where all the flowers came off from the i'o, see? Flower, flower, over there another flower. So that's another thing that I'm learning about. I don't know if there's a lot of breeding going on when that happens, or if it's just part of its traits or i's natural lifecycle like a tree and the rings. But this is one real good sized one. Real ono pa'a is what we call Ulika. It's super like gummy and that's something you kind of want in your poi. In my opinion anyways, I like when the poi stick to the top of my mouth. It kind of for me, that is what verifies the grade, yeah? Yeah, I love them all though. I love them all. But yeah, this is one of my favorites as far as poi goes. I mean overall like all around because poi is ono. Kalo pa'a as I said is really ono. The leaves, the leaves are good too brah. but you don't like pick your leaves when your growing for this yeah They start to come all loi loi. But yeah, pretty simple, yeah? So guys, if you guys like go ahead and give um a try. So try and identify the family. You can see the space, spacing, I kind of got them kind of close. But this is kind of where you break them. Look for the makua. Then you work your way around um.
Guest:You planted them you use string?
Tyson:I use string for keep um straight, yeah.
Alex:Nice and straight. OK. Proper technique.
Tyson:Yeah. So typically with the huli, how it is right now is perfect. I usually like to leave three leaves on it like this. Typically, the huli is not this big when you when you make it into huli. But for some reason the thing never like shrink down more than this so but he go he go, it is what it is. So we get three stems like this, I like to cut up the leaf first, you see the lihi right here. This is where the new leaf is gonna pop out. Some people like to stay above it, some people like doesn't really matter to them, they just cut it real short. What I like for do is I like for for cut a portion of it off like that. And what I do it, what it'll do is when you plant when you plant the huli, and the leaf start to pop out the leaf can emerge a lot easier. So I notice, sometimes it doesn't open up when you when you plant the huli. And when it start to go that first leaf it kind of struggles and it starts to to wilt like this. And then sometimes what it'll do is it'll drown. You know, anyway, that's what I've noticed. So whenever I cut my huli like this, and I leave a little opening for it to come out. It's a lot easier for it to get started.
Alex:Yeah, it's like a caterpillar effect. Yeah, it's kind of like a worm.
Tyson:Yeah, Exactly. So that's that's what I've learned just
Alex:Oh, you like that? The roots will come out. from experience. So that's what I try for do. And then after I get the leaves off, you scrape um back like this, and you'll look for the kohina, yeah. And then what I like for do is I like to aim like right below it like this. Then will come down about halfway and then we'll break it off. And then what that does is it creates like a slant like this right?
Tyson:Well, some people say that. It helps with the, you can make the kalo grow a certain way a certain shape. but for me is, and I learned this from braddah Tulson next to me, is when you got that when you got that slant when you stick it in the lepo, it helps it with the suction it stays right there doesn't fall over, it doesn't come out. It helps with the suction of the of the huli so it doesn't come out. So you know sometimes some people they plant and then next day they look oh they stay all floatin ah the huli. If you make your huli like this, the cap, and you plant um it creates a suction so it doesn't come out.
Alex:Important for lo'i style.
Tyson:Yeah important for lo'i style. Mala not too bad. Yeah, common sense. Yeah. So I've always learned this. Just because that's how everybody would do um. But I never know why. And that is the reason why, suction. It's not until I experienced um myself. Yeah. And that's what you call huli. Right here, that's what you replant and keep your crops going.
Guest:This type of what you're learning is generationally passed down. Not from a textbook.
Tyson:Yeah, this is what I learned from brother Tulson, who had learnedd from his father, who had learned from, you know, probably his father and his uncles, and whatnot. So this is what I learned from them.
Guest:Those are the things that need to be passed down for generations.
Tyson:Yeah, this stuff you can also I saw kind of talking about this. I seen a couple other farmers talking about this when they cut huli. But um, yeah, this is, this is how I do um. There's no, there's no right or wrong way to plant huli, I would say the best way is just get them in the f*** dirt. Get them in mud, as long as you get them in the mud, and the thing grow, that's the main thing. So this is just my own technique that I've learned from other farmers. And some of it like from learning on my own, kind of what I experience. But yeah, so this is the huli's we'll replant, and that's what we're gonna do right now. Yeah, okay. This is called Elepaio, see the leaf
Alex:all the leaves like that. Verrigated.
Tyson:Yeah, just like the Wahiapele, but white. It's named after the bird yeah the native bird Elepaio. That white spot.
Alex:It's pretty. It's like a birthmark.
Tyson:Yeah. Yeah. And there's two varieties of Elepaio. Elepaiohakea and Elepaiohauliuli. Hauliuli is the dark stem. This one is Hakea so its lighter the stem. I noticed this one doesn't do as well in the lo'i as the uliuli. If you if you look it up on Kupuna Kalo, they'll tell you what does better as well. But I just got a I got a bunch of these from a friend. and just grew um, I just stuck um inside. We'll see what happens. I'll give it a couple life cycles and see what happens.
Alex:So we know that farming is physically demanding. It is emotionally demanding sometimes and draining and mentally draining. Especially when you try to balance all these other things going on your life just to survive, you know, and take care of your family. So like so many farmers like you, you get your nine to five, your regular regular day job. And then you farm on top of that. And it's super easy to get burned out. It's super easy to get discouraged. You have one, one hard season or one year where you harvest just not as good or you get some pilikia, some problems along the way. So what I've been asking some farmers in these interviews is what's something that helps you kind of get through the week and helps you you know, keep you optimistic and hopeful and keep keeps fueling your passion so that you can keep marching forward and not not getting discouraged or give up like what can you share as a piece of advice to kind of like support and encourage another farmer who might be struggling,
Tyson:I guess for me is like what I said in the intro, is we try and keep the main thing, the main thing you know, so you gotta you gotta try and look at yourself and see what the bigger picture. Why are you farming? You know, what do you want to farm? Why do you want to grow your own food? And you gotta keep that, the answer to that, the main thing you know. Anytime you feel like giving up you gotta go back to that Your purpose, yeah. So for me for me anyways is my
Alex:Your purpose. family. And it's easy for any family man for be doing all this stuff for his family. So whatever it is, wherever you are in life Think of what is important to you and why and you always keep that why in your in your mind whenever you feel like giving up and that's what got me through all this. I mean look at this. It's plenty work brah. It's choke work. So what keeps me working hard is thinking of my kids, you know, knowing that this is this is for them. They get to live they get to grow up doing this stuff. And I will know that I planted a seed and no matter where they are in life when they get older, this always going to be a part of them. And when things get hard, especially with the way the world is going. to have this to fall back on if they don't want to pursue that stuff. So that's what keeps me going. Yeah, and it's stuff like that, that will keep you going. If you like, if you feel like giving up so. Yeah, you gotta you gotta reach deep. Yeah, deeper than just money or lifestyle, you gotta have a deeper why
Tyson:You gotta have a deeper why. Yeah, especially because this is physically demanding, but it's also mentally demanding as well. So you gotta keep them both strong. You know, you gotta, what I would for say is ho'omau, you gotta persevere. So, and also, you gotta, you gotta be patient. You know, ho'omanawanui, make time long, you got to realize that it's not all gonna come right away. You know, it's gonna get hard before it gets easy. So just know that when you're going through the hard, the hardest part of it, you know, in your mind that it's going to get easier from there, because it's inevitable. It's going to get easier as long as you stay on the right track and keep the main thing the main thing.
Alex:So build a solid foundation. Right. And that's, that's the security that's the sustainability. Yeah, that's the the that's what the independence. That's where the sovereignty comes from is being secure being being solid and having the fallback being the food. And caretaking the aina.
Tyson:Because, because if you can't afford the food in the stores, just know that you can grow them yourself brah, you know.
Alex:Well we should be growing them ourself. For ourselves and our community. So that being said, your farm in order for you to thrive here, and in order for you to grow and for your vision to grow, what do you see in your future for this farm for this project? And I know you're talking about having it be more of an educational thing, more of like a community bank, yeah? A bank of varieties and cultivars of kalo and especially lo'i kalo, for other people to perpetuate and for other people to grow food as well. What, what do you need right now? What could help you get to the next level? What's that one thing that would be a game changer for
Tyson:We should be 100%. you, for this vision to truly manifest and blow up into something really big for everybody? Um, well, in the beginning part we talked about, I know you and I, we talked about what are the challenges that I face as a kalo farmer, is finding the time. So for me to pay my bills, because I don't sell anything here, I don't profit from anything here. I work a nine to five, actually,
it's a 7 to 5:30 job, which takes a lot of my time, you know, so having that help, when I do have the time really helps me get ahead. You know, so I know we talked about "Plant Some, Pull Some." And so basically, what that is, is, is you come here, if you want if you need food, or if you just like get into the lo'i, get your hands dirty. You come down here, you plant some with me, and you get to pull some and take home whatever you like, you know, use that sweat equity basically instead of money. Because I don't I don't ask, I don't sell this but it's not free. You know, I mean, you gotta sweat for um. You gotta work for um. And it's, it comes from a moral a moral standpoint where if you want something, you got to work hard for um, you know? Yeah. And so I don't always have extra kalo, but for the most part, I will, and when I do, it'd be good to share um. You know, that's part of the reason why I wanted for do this because I like share the food. I like make sure everybody get for eat.
Tyson:Yeah, I like make that this staple food, this healthy
Alex:Share the huli. starch can reach local tables for eat because if it wasn't for this plant right here brah, none of us would be here. This wouldn't be Hawai'i you know. So yeah. You can hit me up on my Instagram. Hit me up, see where I'm at. You can, you know, for me right now, I'm taking one or two people a week. You can come down. You can plant kalo and you can pull kalo and you can take home food you know. You can take luau, you can take the i'o if you like. you can take huli. So long as you sweat with me, it's all good with me. That's the new hashtag,#plantsomepullsome. So we gonna grow our own food. I think the other thing too is even if you're not here on the west side of Kauai, wherever you are in islands, support your local farmer. Go volunteer, go check out the lo'i, go check out the fish pond, whatever, but just give some of your time at the end of the week. Help plant some more food and keep it growing to the next level otherwise, we're never going to reach food security, we're never going to reach the sustainability that everyone just talks about. You got to plant. Stop talking start planting. That's the main thing. Anything else you'd like to add?
Tyson:Yeah ,to touch up on that visiting your local lo'i. I mean, it doesn't have to be everyday. It doesn't have to be every week. But if you can donate some free time just for come and see what farmers do when they farming is a lot of appreciation for me, you know. Because some people think farmers are just farmers, you stuff food in the ground and then we eat um. It's not how it works, you know, we gotta become more than just one farmer.
Alex:And we could always use other talents to on the farm. You don't have to be farming. Like just anything like even creating creating video. Content creation. Just getting the word out about who's farming where and how to get some local produce and support. Yeah, so go volunteer at your local farm.
Tyson:Support local.
Alex:Yeah, support local. Mahalo.
Tyson:Mahalo.
Thao:We want to thank our guests for their generosity and
Alex:Shoots. manao. We also want to thank all our ag producers throughout the islands and especially those we have heard on the podcast for discussing ways they address the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of Hawaii ag production. Each story each voice contributes to a broader understanding of what it takes to survive and thrive as we feed our communities, wherever you may find yourself within our island agricultural economies. If you would like to share your story in our podcast, please contact us. Thank you for listening to the seeds of well being "Voices From the Field" podcast featuring their perspectives of ag producers throughout the Hawaiian Islands. If you have found it helpful, please follow like and share this episode with others. And if you have any ideas about how we can make it better, please let us know in the comments or use the link on our website. Mahalo for tuning in. The intention of these podcast series is to create a safe space for respectful and inclusive dialogue with people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making accessible the food we share together. A diversity of voices, perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding to spark creative problem solving and provide insight into the complexities of our agricultural system. If you, our listeners, have experiences with Hawaii agricultural ecosystem from indigenous methods, permaculture, smallholder farmers, to large including multinational agricultural, industrial companies, and everywhere in between, and you would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your Voices and perspectives