In this episode we speak with Kaʻeo Duarte and Kanakolu Noa from Kamehameha Schools and Bishop Estate - which we abbreviate as KS. In an earlier podcast we spoke with KS about their 135 year history and strategic vision for the future, but in this episode we focus on how they view their role and responsibilities as part of the larger Hawaiʻi Food System with their initiatives like “50% Buy Local,” forward contracting, and a Food Systems Fund investment program.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources (CTAHR), and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
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In this episode we speak with Kaʻeo Duarte and Kanakolu Noa from Kamehameha Schools and Bishop Estate - which we abbreviate as KS. In an earlier podcast we spoke with KS about their 135 year history and strategic vision for the future, but in this episode we focus on how they view their role and responsibilities as part of the larger Hawaiʻi Food System with their initiatives like “50% Buy Local,” forward contracting, and a Food Systems Fund investment program.
Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources (CTAHR), and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
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Find out more about us:
The views information or opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of individuals involved, and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, our funders, or any of the organizations affiliated with this project. Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing"Experts in the Field" podcast featuring people working in their fields of expertise to provide support for agriculture producers in Hawaii, in the United States, and in some cases around the world. These podcasts were made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, also known as CTAHR and the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project and is supported by a grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Kaʻeo Duarte:I think we're excited to talk today about food systems versus agriculture. I think that's an important point is talking about agriculture is absolutely critical, and we've probably have more experience in agriculture as a large agricultural landowner, like the other podcast talked about, but a big focus for us, or shift as an organization, is how do we think more intentionally about food systems, which is much broader than just the production side or agricultural side of that. And also, I think, more complex, but also allow more opportunity both for repositioning and stewarding land and water, but also jobs and careers, and also potential to move larger industries and the economic needle to strengthen always local economy.
Jim:In this episode, we speak with Kaʻeo Duarte and Kanakolu Noah from Kamehameha Schools and Bishop Estate, which we abbreviate as KS. In an earlier podcast, we spoke with KS about their 135 year history and strategic vision for the future. But in this episode, we focus on how they view their role and responsibilities as part of the larger Hawaiʻi food system with initiatives like 50%, buy local, forward contracting, and a food systems investment program. Now let's hear from Kaʻeo and Kanakolu.
Kaʻeo Duarte:Aloha, Kaʻeo Duarte. I'm the Vice President of Community and Aina Resiliency for Kamehameha Schools.
Jim:and Kanaholu?
Kanakolu Noah:Aloha, I am Kanakolu Noah and Iʻm the Interim Director of Sustainable Industries.
Jim:And I think you folks wanted to actually bring up a slide. So for folks that, we do have video and audio versions of the podcast, so I think, I think we're going to bring up a slide initially. And then for those that see that don't have the video version, you can take a look at the video version on our YouTube channel. Or if you'd like I think we'll talk through it in enough detail, where we will get a sense of what's on this slide. So Iʻll let you folks take it from here.
Kaʻeo Duarte:Mahalo, Jim, yeah, I'll get us started. So Kamehameha Schools, I wanted to show this slide of how we're looking at food systems. And I think it's an important point of coming out of COVID, a lot of conversations around food system, about community resiliency, food security. There were concerns before COVID. A lot of them was heightened, and we feel a strong push from our communities around how do we move the needle around food, land, water, for resiliency for our communities, and increasingly uncertain world with climate change, and so on and so forth. So while we have, you know, worked within agricultural sector, and influence food systems, pre-COVID, since that we've taken up a renewed push to really look at how we can position Kamehameha Schools lands and resources, and really the whole enterprise around food systems. I think my main point here is, if you look just at agriculture, it's a relatively small portion of our local economy. But if you brought in all the different pieces of the food system, a lot of exciting, exciting opportunities come up as a community. So what we have here on this slide is kind of a simple cartoon version of, of areas where Kamehameha Schools is playing within food systems and where we wanted to do more. So we've kind of broken it up into three areas, more or less, around the supply side, or the production side; of how do we manage our ag land across five islands; our pasture lands for protein, all our water systems that are critical for producing food, and the systems and infrastructure connected to that. How do we malama our tenants and our farmers, our 800+ across the state? And how do we look at diversifying the different production of fruits, vegetables, specialty crops like coffee and cacao and beyond. So we have a really diverse robust portfolio on the supply side or production side. So there's kind of one effort there and kind of closing goal. In each of these areas where we're trying to prioritize different tactics and initiatives to evolve things and move things in a in a more robust direction and Kanakolou can talk a bit about that after I give the overview. In the middle section here the second focus areas on kind of the distribution aggregation value add side of food systems. And a lot of folks know we're a large landowner of agricultural land, we actually also are a large lessor of commercial lands, industrial lands, warehousing, cold storage, manufacturing, tenants, and so on and so forth. And so how do we be more intentional about just not leasing land, but the activities within them for our commercial portfolio for food related manufacturing, for food hubs and aggregators, for value added processing, for storage and distribution of food? So I think that's the second area of focus is working with our colleagues on the commercial side to how do we reposition that portfolio to also help move the needle for food systems? Then kind of on a demand side you know, we have many grocery stores, hotel and retail stores within our portfolio. Tennants on lands too, how do we depart and move them to support more local sales to consumers? All the restaurants that are on commitment schools, properties, farmers markets, and ultimately, our campuses. Our campuses have probably not probably are the biggest restaurant in our portfolio, are our campuses where we serve almost 2 million campus meals across our three campuses, on three islands plus out 30 preschools, and all the snacks and so forth, who are the ones in our preschools. So I think that's, so for us, itʻs how do we more intentionally look across our whole organization, not just the Land and Agriculture Division, but the whole organization has, which is exciting. Food is the beautiful way to pull us together as an organization. It literally touches from our real estate side all the way to our campuses, and our purchasing and finance department. Everyone has a role in potentially helping us move the needle for food systems. So it's been a great opportunity to actually, with for us internally at Kamehameha Schools to really rally around an exciting sector or industry that touches us personally and professionally. So that's kind of the big picture where we heading is to really look across the food system in this way.
Jim:I notice you're you talk to food processing facilities and value add and food hubs, storage and distribution, things like that. Is that, are any of those run by Kamehameha Schools or are they all, you're just the landlord in those in those relationships? The same I guess applies to restaurants, farmers markets, and food and food related tenants.
Kaʻeo Duarte:I can start and then Kanakolu might be closer to the action on some of this. But in general, no, we don't directly own and operate many of the businesses. But as part of this food system initiative, we are getting more involved and more active in wanting to influence what is happening on our lands - how we support these tenants - rather than just being a passive lessor, a transactional relationship, you know, collect rent from the lease. We are definitely moving in direction of how do we build a community of activity and tenants. I'm not saying we're have it all figured out yet. I think we're at the finish line. We're not. We're, you know, in the last few years really getting and getting in a very intentional journey. How do we support this? And maybe one example is, for instance, you mentioned food hubs like FarmLink Hawaii is currently a tenant on KS lands. How do we support them, including with direct investment, and that's something Kanakolu can talk more about. We will have we have set up a food systems investment fund and we're using FarmLink as an example. They're a tenant, what can we do on the leasing side to take care of them and help them build their business to financial sustainability? How do we potentially directly invest in them and have that level of literally equity in them as a company? And then how do we also help them by finding win-win situations where we can buy from them on our campuses, for instance, which can help them we can be a customer for them also. So how do we explore the different ways that KS can connect with our tenants? But no, in generally in general, we don't own or operate businesses.
Jim:Thatʻs helpful, thank you.
Kanakolu Noah:As, as Kaʻeo pointed out, you know, we have both the privilege and sometimes the challenge of being a part of the whole entire ecosystem. And part of it is I think we, we situated ourselves a little bit more around three focal areas, I would say. So we have the ho‘onui side, which Ka‘eo touched around about that idea of increasing food production. And part of that is understanding and appreciating what is the demand of it, and doing a lot of matchmaking. Because, as you folks know, most of our Hawaii landscape is small farmers, and in order to actually ensure that supply chain is a lot healthier we needed to figure out where are those links that are kind of broken, or you know, what are ways in which we can ensure that the supply can actually make it throughout the pipeline. And so then we kind of realized that that whole ho‘ohui side, which is strengthening the aggregation and distribution. And that also caused us to recognize what are the certifications, permitting, you know, all of those regulatory parts of it, we needed to understand, appreciate and provide supports around that. And, of course, the more fun aspect of it is the makemake side, right? The influencing demand and how we, as human beings consume our food and where does that all lie? So those are the kind of, if I had to think about the three focal areas of our portfolio of work. And we've created a pretty robust toolkit in order to deploy in those three areas. So, as I think Kaʻeo talked a little bit about, you know, when we think about the toolkit, we thought about, you know, what are the key resources that we know that we need to either create, leverage, or you know, optimize that already exist. So of course, there's this idea of, you know, our food systems investment funds. So part of the initial step was to set up a $10 million fund devoted to food systems. I think it's kind of first of its kind in the way that we thought about how to construct it, in the sense of, you know, looking at it from an equity standpoint, debt, and then utilizing different mechanisms and partners to be able to deploy that $10 million, over five, five years. And I think, to our surprise, you know, the pipeline has a lot, has become a lot stronger than over, I think, I would say over the last two years. It still has a little bit of our challenges, especially when we think about the financial returns. However, there are some gems out there, as Kaʻeo pointed out some opportunities with, you know, FarmLink, Monohana Chocolate. I think the dynamic part of that space is there's ways that we can kind of rally around our investment in a productive way. So we're not just deploying financial supports, but we're also able to make really important connective tissues and relationships that perhaps ensure that the investment is, is healthy. And so as he pointed out, there are ways that we can ensure, for example, I'll stick to you know, FarmLink or even Ulu Co-op. You know, we can actually have some sort of influence on the supply side and get them linked up with key partners and farmers and those within that space, and then have some sort of opportunity to influence on the demand side. So that's, that's kind of part of our work. And then, you know, it's for the part around institutional purchasing, you know you gotta you gotta practice what you preach about buying local. So I think Kamehameha Schools did a great job of, you know, jumping in front of that and making a commitment to actually have a 50% Buy Local for our organization. And because we have, you know, one of the largest restaurants in in Hawaii in relationship to our campus we have a really, really prime opportunity to have influence on that supply. And so we've been making progress. And part of that was a partnership with Center for Good Food Purchasing, and understanding and appreciating the data, which as, as you probably know, that's allways scarce in this space and really understanding, you know, the information in the data that would actually give us opportunity to share that knowledge but also make better decisions. And, you know, I think we're, Ka'eo and his team has done a great job of bringing together or bringing along other partners such as Hawaii Pacific Health, I think Punahou has jumped in, and other institutions. So kind of creating that movement.
Jim:You just mentioned Punahou is following. Are they following along on the 50% By Local model? Or is that what you meant?
Kanakolu Noah:They haven't, they haven't necessarily set a target, not that I know of, but they did, they are currently working with Center for Good Food Purchasing and exploring their opportunity in that space.
Jim:That's good to know. And you are achieving 50% Buy Local today, is that true? Or is that a future goal?
Kanakolu Noah:No. So yeah, so we have until 2025. So, you know, great strides, and I think in the last year and a half around, really understanding and appreciating what our keiki, what our keiki consume, and partnering with the cafeteriaʻs staff, and those that create the menu to actually make some sort of progress along the continuum. Because it's going to take some time to integrate, I think, the right foods, and also, you know, change the ono, right? Our keiki have to have some sort of palette renewal.
Jim:Right, as part of, well you mentioned Ulu Co-Op, and I think they're in the forefront of helping change the palette for the local economy to understand the benefits and, and what to do with the ulu once it's grown, right, and once it's harvested, so they've done a great job of that. But I think I mean, the good news is you have the classrooms, and you have a captive audience of students, so you can help with that education process from a very early time.
Kaʻeo Duarte:I would mention on kind well partnerships. Kanakolu mentioned Hawaii Pacific Health. I think it's worth mentioning that partnership, because they actually were before us. Hawaii Pacific Health and made a commitment to 50% Buy Local, and they're one of the largest health systems in the State. And it's been a wonderful, wonderful relationship and partnership of a large school, and a large health system, both trying to think through wellbeing of families, and then the food as the vehicle. And so they seem so simple, but we don't make the time. A lot of the strides have just come by we meet quarterly to just compare notes. We got our purchasing people, purchasing departments, we got the cafeteria, food managers and chefs talking story with each other trading notes. Going on field trips, going on field trips, to farms and to food hubs and, and having honest conversations of you know, this is what I'm challenged with. You know, "If you can get me it this way, you know, I'm more likely to buy it." or, you know, "Can you guys be more flexible in your menus for this?" a lot of times you may take it for granted but those conversations weren't naturally happening. So I think Kanakolu and her team, it's so important is those relationships and those conversations helping to unlock understanding and opportunity. So again, while we're really not at 50% yet, I'm super proud of the team on three campuses too right? Three different islands, three campuses, they're all in a different place, and that's fine, you know. Some of them are have higher Buy Local, some of them less, but we're taking this journey together and comparing notes. So that's what gives me a lot of hope is just if people mindsets and relationships are in the right place, you know, really cool things can happen and I think Kanakoluʻs team that probably their primary job is relationships and matchmaking and inspiring people and cheerleading is so critical.
Jim:Maybe free taste testing? Use the Costco model, right? So I guess what, how have you found it to be with your tenants, right? You have conversations and clearly you want to have them focus more on local agriculture and kind of the the food systems here that that you described initially. So, have you found people to be receptive? Do you find that you have to either give them you know, carrots or sticks in order to try to help move things forward? Or what's what's the reception been like?
Kaʻeo Duarte:From a philosophical standpoint I don't feel any resistance both on the supply or demand side, whether it's our farmer or rancher tenants or our commercial tenants or retailers. Yeah, I mean more local food and for for families and our community, I think there's, I havenʻt heard anybody say they don't want that. But you know, I think it's people in different places, especially if you're coming out of COVID where many folks are really struggling. And some people went out of business. Or so being sensitive to that of people being in different places for their businesses, wether they're on a supply or on the demand side. So I think even our engagement, we've had to temper ourselves. It's easy to want to do something, but many of our local businesses are all in different places. So wanting to be sensitive to what they can handle, and what they're ready for. What makes sense. So being flexible, and adaptive, I think has been very key for us. And then, you know, there's some farmers and, and ranchers who they're set up, they're good. You know, they have their supply lines and their buyers. And then there's either wholesale or farmers markets, or so forth and that's awesome. So there are they are all feeding into good systems in ways that do exactly what they should be doing and KS is not there to get in the way, so our best thing we can do is stay out of the way. And then the other places, it's, yeah, maybe if there's somebody who, I can use an example here in Kona where I live in, I'm here in Kona. One of our former tenants who has supplied a lot of restaurants and hotels here, and in COVID, like so many others, he almost went out of business, and he switched to an online food hub. And we supported him with helping to buy a refrigerated truck and place at our shopping center here where I'm sitting today where he could deliver or drop off food boxes. You know, so, that was just a really small example, you know, supporting a hydroponic grower and tenant to survive through COVID. And then also support others because he was buying from from obviously he was buying from other, and not just not just about Kamehameha School, he was purchasing from both KS and non-KS farmers and tenants. So that was a way where we could support a tenant who was having a domino effect and a ripple effect supporting even more farmers and tenants. And providing food. I, ʻtil this day, I buy food, I buy vegetables from, from Zach every Saturday. So he's persisted in the last two plus years since COVID supplying food to my family and others here in Kona. So at some places, we've been relatively involved in a concrete way in others, so it's a journey, I guess, is what I'm saying. And I know Kanakolu if you guysʻ work with some of the forwarding contracting and connections you've been trying to make on the institutional purchasing to try and make connections with both KS and non KS suppliers? Maybe that would be good for the audience.
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah, um, you know, it's an interesting space, because, like Kaʻeo said, nobody's not gung ho about it. Everybody wants to, you know, plug in and do their part. It's, it's interesting, when you get into institutional purchasing, no? Because you got two really critical parts of it, right, you got quality, and you got quantity. And then you have to have that third piece, which is consistency. And that piece, I think, is the piece that's not always locked in. And consistency in both quality and quantity. And as you as many know, schools and hospitals have a higher, higher kind of threshold of regulatory aspects of it. And so, you know, for for a lot of our tenants, it was really about figuring out that that connective tissue to be able to get into the door. And that's why food hubs became a really critical piece to this. Like, such as Kahumana Farms, they have been a really important partner for our Kapalama campus and others in order to actually be kind of that, that hub for a lot of other farmers. Now, and then the sensitivity to this idea of ensuring that we're adding and not just relocating products, you know, supply flow. I think that's been, at least for me, a really critical commitment. And that's not always easy, because, you know, to have institutions make commitment to a farmer to say we'll take your supply over, you know, it's it's a, it's a guarantee, and a lot of them would would want to just shift over. However, that that doesn't do good for our whole local ecosystem. So how do we utilize tools such as forward contracting to help them scale up their production? And then, you know, food systems is a microcosm of all the other Hawaii challenges around housing, so ag housing becomes an issue, labor, labor. You know, so really figuring out what is that pace and sizing it right. So that's been an exploratory space to really figure out. However, I mean, there has been successes around forward contracting for, you know. So for example, we have a forward contract with Maui Nui Venison that supplies our Maui campus as well, as well as our Kapalama campus. So do you know there's examples of how it may be utilized to keep either supply locally here, and/or utilize to start to influence the size of our farms so that they get to kind of more of a thriving space from our business model?
Jim:Would you mind briefly describing forward contracting and what that is and how that helps?
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah, so it, you know, it's an interesting thing, because in the beginning, when we thought about that tool, we had a very specific definition around it. And I think it's kind of expanded a little bit just because of the nature of some of the some of the businesses and where they're at. So, for example, for Maui, Nui Venison, and you know, we we have kind of a procurement contract with them, where we, where we will take so much supply at a price per month. And so and there's a commitment for I think, a year out, and we're exploring it right, this is kind of R&D thing to see, you know, would that be a three year opportunity. What we did, what I was proud about was that we were just going to start it off in one campus and now we've expanded that opportunity to the other two campuses. We are doing a forward contract with Kahumana Farms. So one of the things we had to mitigate for was, you know, agriculture has different variables, we have to think about, which is weather, and so on, and so forth. So doing a forward contract directly with a farmer is a little bit more risky for both sides of the house. So you know, doing one with Kahumana Farms, we're committing to a specific amount of supply, and we pay for it upfront so that it can assist with all of those opportunities of scale up. So we know, you know, we have, it's not where you know, your restaurant doesn't, your food doesn't taste good so you're not getting customers. Our poor keiki, that they just got to eat what they get, right? So we, we have a consistent consumer, which allows us to think about how we can actually say, you know, these are top 10 you know, either produce or protein. We we understand the pound, you know, the pound requirements, and so on and so forth and so we can pay for it ahead. And that gives them a little bit more viability to to see if there's opportunities to support the farmer in the scale up.
Jim:Yeah. And just to confirm Kahumana is Co-Op is as opposed to just a single farm, am I, is that correct?
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah, so they are food hub on Oahu.
Jim:Okay, thank you. Yeah, that's helpful, just because some of those, so those contracts, those forward contracts seem much more possible, because you could have farmers helping farmers and backing each other up right, when there are issues, so
Kanakolu Noah:And there's very few farmers that can actually meet the quantity of our demand on a regular basis. So being able to aggregate amongst all farm, you know, multiple farmers is really important in this process.
Jim:That sounds like a key piece to success for this model. And, and it sounds like you may perhaps be the landlord for some food hubs so that could be helpful as well. And you can have, you know, firsthand see what's going on there and maybe help out as it seems like you have with some of the farmers as well, when you start to see them struggle, which is great that you're really a true partner and and can help support them. And it sounds like there's did you say $10 million that was set aside to to help as well? So is that grants or is that loans or is it some combination? Or can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Kaʻeo Duarte:It's not the is not a grant program, we do have a grant program. So KS does have a philanthropic kind of grant arm. This is this was very intentionally set up as from our endowment endowment side of the house as how do we invest from our large portfolio of investments nationally and globally and carve out a little bit to invest in our local, our local economy, local businesses? Which we will be frank, it's hard. You know, we don't have quite the investment ecosystem and pipeline here that exists in other places. But yeah, I really applaud our CEO and Trustees. You know, we set up this $10 million, it's a modest fund, you know, $10 million. I mean, depending how you look at itʻs small or large, but it's been a great, it's the first of its kind for KS. And we've, and it's kind of internally managed and directed, which is not necessarily easy, but I think absolutely necessary for the reasons Kanakolu said, if you're not on the ground, you know, pounding the pavement making relationships, it's it's not going to happen. So the $10 million fund is for more equity and debt. And how do we invest in and, and you know, reasonable financial returns. We know upfront, we're not going to get double digit returns that maybe our our investment division will get globally. But also, how can we get some reasonable returns investing in businesses while also getting all the non financial impacts and returns for jobs, or strengthening the portfolio of farmers and ranchers both on KS land and off KS, land. How to strengthen the ecosystem of food systems, which is going to have a positive ripple effect, which will help KS and the State, both financially and non-financially? So that was the intent. It's been a learning journey for the last three years, I think. I think we're about halfway through, yeah Kanakolu, we would like about 5 million deployed at this point, 5 of the $10 million has been deployed in is it six companies or? Nine. In nine, in nine companies, some, I think the largest investment we made is maybe a million dollars, some of them are really small kind of very micro investments where we're able to learn. And the returns have been, you know, from single digit to double digit returns. So yeah, I mean, that we're, we're in process. So we don't again, but it's been, I at least feel really good that this has been a great I donʻt say experiment, but a great initiative to deploy KS resources. And this again, that to me the ripple effect, right, where Letʻs use Ulu Co-Op, which I think you're familiar with Jim, where, you know, we in that they were our first investee. Ulu Co-Op was our first investment from the food systems fund that we invested in, I think, equity and debt for their capital raise. So first time we directly invest in. Theyʻre also a tenant of ours from a farm perspective. They're also a tenant from their processing facility in Hilo. And they're also someone where, and they buy for many of our other tenants. So you see this domino effect happening where we invest in them, the return is modest, but we're also like literally investing in a tenant who pays us rent, and makes our lands productive and stewards our lands. They're buying from other KS tenants who are doing the same thing. And they were purchasing from them to feed our kids healthy foods, and to change their palate. So what gets really exciting when you see the dots start to connect, you know, around partners like the Ulu Co-Op, and their impact on local jobs and education. They do a great job educating around Ulu and just around good stewardship and sustainability. So I think that's a great example of the kind of multiplier effects we're hoping for.
Jim:That's great. I mean, how would folks be able to tap into those funds as perhaps candidates to receive some? What would the process be?
Kanakolu Noah:We don't necessarily have a quote unquote, link, you can click and then you know, you turn in your application, we have more of a of a formalized investment process. So you know, we kind of have a pre screening opportunity. And then we have actually an investment fund team and a formalized pitch opportunity as well as a rubric and so on and so forth. Because there's there's some really important criterion that is a part of this. Yeah.
Kaʻeo Duarte:And what we can do, Jim is we can, we can get, you know a email or link, I guess yeah Kanakolu to Pia. Pia Chock is our food systems fund manager. She does an awesome job. And just really, really reiterating what Kanakolu said, again, to be clear tht food systems are not a grant program. It's a, itʻs a equity debt, or royalty sharing type of investment opportunity but also looking for multiple outcomes in addition to reasonable financial returns, specifically for food systems, broadly speaking. That whole food system from on the dirt side all the way to waste, we're looking across broadly across that system. Any aspect, and for businesses in Hawaii, I mean that's critical too. We, we are trying to stick to investing in businesses here. And here in this state. Specifically,
Jim:I want to go back to, itʻs an interesting number eight 50% Buy Local by 2025, and that's what only three years away. That's such a hot button or such a quoted statistic. We talked to Chad Buck, and he said, you know, who's in the middle of all the the perishable food distribution throughout the islands and got through COVID, and is kind of shocked that we're at about 5% of what we consume on the islands is local. So I guess my question is, do you have a sense of what percentage that is now? And and? Because I think that might be interesting to know what, what you have to get to what you have today. So you know how far you have to go.
Kanakolu Noah:We have a pretty diverse campus in the sense of size. So you know, Kapalama of us our largest one. And so we're, Kapalama is sitting at about 26% currently. But our Maui campus is at about 51%. So our Maui campus kind of is already at that target. And then we're, Hawaii Island campus, why do I, how come I can't remember, they're, I think they're at about, I want to say, either 20, 29 or 32. So, you know, from that standpoint, I think we're on a good pace. Because when we think about where we were, we were kind of teetering around 15%, give or take. COVID really had obviously a huge impact on our data system. I mean, our data in that regard. And I and I can appreciate what Chad Buck is saying, because it is a little bit difficult. I think it's going to take three major things. One is matchmaking, I don't think we don't have the supply, I just think that we don't necessarily have all the all the people linked in the right way. And then the second piece is that, you know, I think I kind of mentioned that earlier about changing the ono. Like, we have to actually start to change the way that we eat. So, you know, through through the data collection and all of that we kind of understood that, you know, what is our top 10 you know, produce we consume, what does our protein look like and so on and so forth. And it wasn't so much "Okay, now we have to get everybody to, you know, produce that and make sure that we can we can supply that" it actually was also understanding what is being supplied and having that have an influence on our menu. And so one of our huge efforts right now is to actually think about our native Hawaiian crop revitalization. And so, how do we, so for example, you know, the things that Ulu Co-Op is doing around really understanding and appreciating you know, the the lifespan of Ulu and how it can be utilized in various ways and how you know, we can integrate that in in the way that our keiki eat. We're looking at that for kalo. You know Kaʻeo had birthed an amazing effort called poi for the, poi for the people and through that we've done some things, not only on our campuses but externally, about how we appreciate and you know, shift the ways that we consume our our haloa, our kalo, and also through poi. And how do we get that started at a very very young age and malama that, but make it also not only accessible but affordable. what does that look like?
Kaʻeo Duarte:Kanakolu, I forgot about it. I think it would be great. Can you, can you give the audience maybe some detail on Maui campus, the poi meal, the students, education, buying from farmers, the little one? I think it's a great, you guys did a great job kind of curating that poi for the people initiative on Maui campus as a success.
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a proof point of a model that we are gonna have to really think about to be able to scale up for other other ways that we understand local supply and local consumption. And so, you know, we started off pushing poi for the people on Maui campus because they have a poi mill at the campus. And, you know, they were, they were trying to integrate poi into not only, you know, in their maiaʻai or their food, but also within their curriculum. So there's a agricultural teacher there, Hōkūao Pellegrino, he's a kalo farmer. So our team, and, you know, the KS Maui team got together, and we talked about, from start to finish, so from, from growing to consuming, what are the critical areas that we could influence so that, that whole entire ecosystem can become healthier, and healthier in the sense of even the wellbeing of our keiki and their understanding of, you know, all of the moʻolelo and the importance of that maiaʻai, you know, within our hale. And so, with that said, we were actually able to partner with other farmers, kalo farmers within the Maui community, and make a shift on the pound, like how we bought the kalo. So I don't know, many, many may know this. But, you know, a lot of the kalo is, for raw kalo, was about 75 cents a pound. That hasn't changed since I think like late 70s, early 80s, the price of raw kalo. And, you know, there's, there's a huge acknowledgement that that's a way of life. And so how do we ensure that we can support that. So we were able to actually establish relationships and, and be able to buy the raw kalo at a much more valuable price. And then we were actually able to ensure that we had that quality and consistency and the quantity that we needed, which then allowed us to uptick, the consumption. So we were, I think we are at a place where we tripled the consumption of poi at the campus levels on Maui. And then, you know, that also means that the poi mill gets utilized more. That also means that now the students can get involved in the production. That also means that, you know, the teachers could start to do wrap around curriculum around, you know, food, maiaʻai, all the moʻolelo, so on and so forth. So, yeah, I think that's just a start to this work around poi for the people. How do we decentralize and make it more community centric? And how do we incorporate it in all facets of life? I think one of the, one of the key things where we, we did a partnership with our preschools, and we did a poi for the pepe. So, you know, the, the couple of the Maui High schoolers, you know, produced the poi, they went to the preschools, they gave one pound of poi to every preschool student and their ohana, and then they were able to take that home. And I think that's just the starter of hopefully being able to actually integrate into our communities in our, and our homes. Yeah.
Jim:That is a great story. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Is that one of the reasons why I think we said Maui was at 51%.
Kanakolu Noah:Yes. And, you know, I think, what was his name? Shucks. He was the one that started the Ulu hummus many, many moons ago, back in 2010. He was actually running our cafeteria on Maui. And he he made a huge commitment to, to local food purchasing. I happen to have been on Maui campus at the time. So he really set the course for that. And he made great relationships with farmers and so on and so forth and the cafeteria head now, her name is Bonnie, she's also committed to that. So I think, you know, we have to really acknowledge that it's the human element in how we're going to accomplish these goals. It's a lot of it's, it might be a lot more work. In the beginning, you know, and establishing the, you know, the relationships, the processes, the procedures going on. Trying to try to change the world of procurement. But it's yeah, it's possible.
Kaʻeo Duarte:Absolutely. And two things, Kanakolu just jogged my memory. Two things she mentioned, purchasing procurement. We literally have our procurement manager in these meetings, which is really cool. You know, one of our purchasing manager from our main offices in downtown Honolulu is joining these meetings. But it's, you know, she's got to be on board too. We need everybody within our enterprise on board. Second thing is that keeping for Kanakolu did mention scale, but just to launch off of that, that I think it goes to a lot of pressure on DoE, in a positive way for DOD at the biggest restaurant in the state to influence. But the scale part is hard. And again Kanakou knows all the details. I don't know like Kapalama is a great example. Because the folks up on our Kapalama campus, they're all into they they want to do this. But where Maui and Hawaii Island, the scale of how much they need to produce at a given meal, makes it a little easier on the procurement side to be able to do a whole meal with with all, with mostly local ingredients. For Kapalama, I think we've tried to do right some events, and we literally couldn't find enough of certain products, or it was very, very hard for Kanakolu and the team to piece together enough of a local ingredient. For the size of that campus is, what is it, it's like three times bigger, right, than the other campuses are. So, so that that's a that's a that's actually a really good indicator right of where we are as a State. So sometimes they say, "Well, can't you just buy locally, you know, so on and so" but we're like, in some cases, we literally, we would where we literally can't find enough supply. But that that challenge is also an opportunity. So I think that's where as a State, there's this, there's this interesting yin and yang around supply and demand, or sometimes a supply the demand side wants to buy, but the supply side doesn't have enough or sometimes the supply side is trying to get rid of or to grow something and the demand side is not syncʻd up. So I just want to echo Kanakoluʻs, the connections, the understanding and working on that is critical, but then for yeah, for like Kapalama campus, which is working very hard, their set of challenges is different. Because they want to do I don't know chicken luau or squid luau, it was hard to find enough luau leaf for for to feed that many kids at one meal. So how do we turn that challenge into an opportunity?
Jim:I think it's also a great point you made that you were able to, because your buying power and your influence and your connectivity with all these different components, you're actually able to raise the price that's paid for kalo so that farmers are incentivized to farm it really and profitability is so, itʻs on such a thin line anyway, it's on a razor's edge. That's really helpful.
Kanakolu Noah:I guess I want to mention this because I think I want to crack the myth on that. Is this idea that buying local is more expensive? Yes, and no. So one of the things that we worked on with Kapalama was menu menu planning and having some sort of influence, right? And, you know, I think one of the things that we really have to think about is kind of like, how much does it cost for the whole meal, and not just per item? And when you can kind of think about it like that, you actually start to save money, perhaps. That's been part of part of our R&D process is that, yes, you know, for example, you know, the tomato, the local tomato might be more expensive, but if you replace, you know, the ulu for the potato, the ulu might be less, you know. So it's really about, and that's why I say sometimes it just takes more work, and then, you know, where is your perspective, right? So, yes, you might, at the end of the day, say, "Oh, my goodness, I paid more for this, this, this and this item," but if you take the overall budget that might, you know, you might have just zeroed out. And so even getting, you know, people to change their mindset about how we understand our spend, and what is the what is the cumulative understanding of that has been a neat process. Because, you know, there's those that are super detailed if, you know, in that area, and they want everything in line, I know that they're like, "No, this is too expensive." And then there's, you know, I'm like, Yeah, but you go to the website and you pay per head so you know, paying like per per green onion.
Jim:It sounds almost like, almost like a campaign that is, you know, change your palette and have more in your pocketbook, right, or have more in your pocket is kind of an interesting lesson to learn that I think you folks could, are modeling
Kaʻeo Duarte:Waste too. I mean, that's a critical component is it's and I think the DoE actually has spearheaded this in Kohala, actually. You know, DoE had a pilot program in Kohala, that, that proves what Kanakolu just said that what, the net cost was not more. And part of it was for exactly what she said, tweaking the menu and so forth, and the net cost for the meal and changing the process, we took everything into consideration. And that cost was not more. A part of it was also a waste reduction. Currently, so much of the food made that may be cheaper is getting dumped into a can in the rubbish can I mean. Whereas if you kind of curate menus with the kids and R&D, over time, you may be actually have to produce less because thereʻs less waste, if it's some things. But again, it's still in process. But we didn't talk about that, on the food systems slide there was a last arrow of waste. Going back to composting that it's good to remember there's that waste food waste recycling piece is is also a last connector that connects that whole food system. And that has some interesting economic and environmental opportunities. Also,
Jim:I imagine that would be a great lesson plan for some of the teachers is to look at the total cost of your food right and, and to bring all those factors together. It could be a great classroom experience or conversation. One of the things I noted that you mentioned is that you said one of the key components to reaching your your 50% by 2025 goal is matchmaking and linking people in the right way. So I guess if you could kind of elaborate on what the right way looks like, I think we can infer that from some of the things we just said especially, but if you don't mind elaborating, that would be great.
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah, so I mean, I'll go back to our Mau... our Maui story. You know, so one of our first things that we tried, well we tried to do was, go straight to the farmer right? And our Keʻanae community is, you know, that that is their way of life. And so we we tried to go straight there, one of the things we couldn't do was pay them. And so in the sense of they didn't have the right infrastructure in place to get paid in, in the ways that we, you know, the tools that we had. And so part of that, and that's what I mean by the right, the right way, it, you can match people up with those that have the supply, but if you don't match them up with the infrastructure or the operations that allows them to link into a system, right, because it wasn't like, you know, we could be Okay, well, instead of, you know, having our procurement in this way, we can just pay them cash or swipe, you know. If we needed to figure out how to link them with another intermediary, or get them to hui up and create something that then could allow us to have that business opportunity. And so that's, I guess, that's what I mean, by in the right way. Sometimes we think we can just, you know, throw two people together, and it'll, it'll happen, but there might be some tools that are going to either need to be created or another, another element that needs to be taken into consideration. Another thing about that, too, is transportation and delivery, right? A lot of our tenants or the suppliers, that that's not something that they can provide. But a lot of institutions require that. And so how do we, how do we solve for that? And how do we think through that opportunity? And I guess that's what I mean, again, by a right way, right? Because our cafeteria workers are not going to go holoholo and go pick up from 5000 different farms. So, you know, kind of figuring out that.
Jim:How do our ag producers, folks that have great ideas about how to make some of these, facilitate some of these, these solutions that will make it all possible, that will make it simpler? What's the, what are the best ways for them to connect with you in order to partner up in the ways that that you seem to be doing so often and in so many places?
Kaʻeo Duarte:KS is a is a big institution, and I know it can be that big 800 pound gorilla, but at the end of the day, you know, we have good people like Kanakolu and her team who are members of our community, care about this place, working hard every day. You know, we're very human and very much of this place and want to learn. I would say it's not even just about reaching out to us because I would say we are, in many cases, we're not really set up to be the best vehicle for certain conversation. So we ourselves are plugging into other conversations as part of the community. So I would say engage. Engage with the ongoing food system conversation. There's a lot, especially since COVID. You know, there's various ag hui, I can't even keep up with all the kind of ag and food systems, emails I get for meetings and convening. There's a lot of them happening. I'd just say engage. I mean, Hawaiiʻs not that big of a place. If you start to engage in these food system conversations or events, you're going to meet people. That's what we're doing. Weʻre just trying to engage and show up at events and at meetings and be present. And we meet different people all the time. And I've just added another one last night, I was meeting some beef producers trying to work on creating local feed, and so forth. And it's just those kind of connections that just didn't happen when you when you show up. So yeah, by all means, you know, we can get emails or you know, our farmers and tenants to reach out to us directly. But I think more generally, there is an ecosystem building up on each island, and also some statewide. The food hub hui, you know, they they have, they have a network, they're building a food hubs. Again, I mentioned the Ag Foundation, they have, I forget exactly the name of their, their kind of outreach arm and so forth. To get on those mailing lists, get on those connections. And, and I think these dots are starting to connect, the more we engage. And I don't know, Kanakolu is that, or would you kind of agree with that, or?
Kanakolu Noah:Yeah, but if you find a diamond in the rough, like a unicorn, please email us.
Jim:No, I think I think there's a lot of great ideas out there, right. It's just some of it is implementation and some initial success. So it sounds like making connections, trying things out, having some initial success, I think is going to get get you a foot in the door. And, and perhaps that'll lead to more as a result.
Kaʻeo Duarte:Yeah, so adding to that, Jim, just you know, also giving each other grace and flexibility. You know, for good reason, food sustainability, aina, water issues are, can be very passionate issues as they should be. But, you know, as we're working through, again, so much uncertainty with climate change, and economics and inflation, and so forth. You know, I always try and keep myself centered because oftentimes, you know, you may focus more on the problems and issues, of which there are many. But how do we also create an environment, a community really, an ag, actually Iʻm not gonna say ag, a food systems community. I think that we gotta be real disciplined that itʻs not just ag production, itʻs food systems. How do we create a food systems community, from the farmer ag rancher all the way to the institution, restaurant and everything in between. How do we create that community that is not one side blaming the other side? If you did this, then I would do this. Or if you did that, then we will be fine. Hey, we're all part of this. How do we give ourselves grace, but also push each other in the right way? And just have that mindset as a as a community here in Hawaii? I think we'll get there. I'm very hopeful.
Jim:And actually hope is, maybe we can close on hope as the ending question is. I mean, you've you've been doing this for so long, Kamehameha Schools has been involved in so many aspects, and is really, in very deep with in many aspects. And so do you actually have hope for the future? The ag future of Hawaii? Do you see good signs out there? Have you seen a lot of progress? Tell tell us how you're feeling about the future of ag in Hawaii? What do you see as the future of ag systems in Hawaii? Are you optimistic?
Kanakolu Noah:Yes, I do. I think a couple of things I would say. I think if we were to think about things more decentralized, and I think that's, I think COVID did that. I think people, those of us who you know, enjoy being in our spaces, on our aina, understanding who our neighbors are, this that, that understanding just got amplified during COVID. So people I think, got closer to the things that matter around them. And I think that's probably one of the essential aspects of seeing this kind of food systems work, work, right. So, touch dirt, or you better know somebody who touches dirt and And if you know somebody who touches dirt, then please support them, you know. So really localizing and decentralizing the way that we, we consume, and I don't mean just food, but just you know, all things, I think is going to be pivotal. And I have hope for that. And then, interestingly enough, I do think that we're starting to see a romanticized beauty in food that wasn't necessarily romanticized before. And I say that because, you know, I can't wait until the day that how we celebrate and think that chefs are celebrity celebrities, that we think about that as farmers too. And then, you know, what would that look like? And how would that influence the way that our keiki think about where they want to have a way of life and celebrate that? So that gives me hope, because I think if certain things can get trendy, I think our kids can be our number one advertisers and marketers and so on and so forth. And that'll shift the things that they're curious about, you know, and maybe they'll choose a career pathway that we don't even know exists yet but that completely and totally, totally changes the landscape of our food system. So I'm super hopeful about that. And then third, I just think, people there ono, is just different. I think people are interested in tasting things that are different. And they're, they're a lot more open to it than they were before. And so we have a chance, I just hope that that window doesn't close too fast, and we can jump through it quicker.
Jim:We thank Kanakolu and Kaʻeo for sharing details about KSʻs extensive role in the Hawaii food system. It is clear that much thought and vision goes into all the ways KS touches and can influence decisions related to the food we grow and share together. We hope this look at the details of their involvement and vision for Hawaii food inspires you to be involved in ways to further local food production and consumption on
Kaʻeo Duarte:Iʻll build on that a little bit. Yes, I'm the islands. absolutely hopeful around food systems. And us being able to create a local Hawaii food system. And I say that Hawaii food system very intentionally, because that as I've told some people, our food systems is largely an extension of the mainland food system. I would argue that I'm gonna say that, again, this Hawaii really have a Hawaiian islands food systems? I would say no, we're kind of an extension of the mainlandʻs food system. It just kind of West Coast, it gets on a plane, or a ship, and it gets over here. But all of that economics and those monies, and systems is is all up on the continent. And it's just kind of been delivered to us. And then the money sent back to them. How do we, in Hawaii create a food system that is more rooted here in these islands? Again, all the way from the dirt side, the production side, and all the 1000s of jobs across production, to distribution, to aggregation, to value add, to manufacturing, to wholesale, to retail, to institutions and so forth. But it's hard, it's gonna be hard because of the economic, corporate economic institutions for efficiency and scale can work against you. But I think our the next generation is demanding it, which is awesome. I see the next generation almost, you know, insisting on on us going on in this direction. Here in Hawaii, I really don't believe it's a land and water issue at the core. In the sense I'm not saying there aren't issues tied to land and water. Is there enough land and water to grow enough food for our state? Yes. You can say that. There is enough land and water to grow. It's really around social economics, and how do we on the social side and community and leadership, you know, from government and private institutions, including Kamehameha Schools leadership. And being able to connect the dots against again, food systems. That if we only focus on ag it ain't gonna work. If you only focus on the demand side ain't gonna work. That the whole system has to work as an ecosystem if we're going to truly have a sustainable Hawaii food systems across the board. So I'm just the fact that we're talking about food systems today, Jim, and I have a conversation and many of the conversations I'm in is how about food systems, and we're recognizing as a community that we need to talk about the whole ecosystem, that in itself is, is such a sign of progress even for myself. I would mostly 10 years ago I just talked about ag, and it's been a journey even for me personally and for Kamehameha Schools. Like oh, wait a second we have to be part of the bigger picture. And that in itself gives me hope. So.
Jim:Well, I will say that the hope that I hear from both of you gives me hope. And my hope is that that is that also spreads to our listeners. So thank you both for your time and all this great information. If there are any websites or things like that, that you think you'd like me to share or or photos related to this conversation, I'd be happy to integrate those into the podcast and and the video portion on our YouTube channel. So thank you both again, and and take care.
Kaʻeo Duarte:Aloha Jim. Thank you.
Kanakolu Noah:Aloha. Mahalo.
Jim:The intention of this podcast series is to create a safe space for respectful and inclusive dialogue. With people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making accessible the food we share together. A diversity of voices, perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding, to spark creative problem solving, and provide insight into the complexities of our agricultural system. If you our listeners have experiences with Hawaii agricultural ecosystems, from small holder farms to large even including multinational agricultural industrial companies, or anywhere in between, and he would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your voices and perspectives