Seeds Of Wellbeing - SOW

Voices from the Field: UH CTAHR's Dean Grewal

• Jim Crum / Parwinder Grewal • Season 2 • Episode 11

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In this episode we speak with Dean Parwinder Grewal, nine months after his appointment as Dean of the University of Hawaii’s College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, where he is already starting to make his mark - like changing what CTAHR stands for! We find out about his agriculture and education backgrounds, and how he found out about and why he accepted the position in Hawaii. We hear his vision for Hawaii’s resiliency and how that has shaped, and will shape, his work and that of CTAHR in the future.

Brought to you by University of Hawaii College of Tropical Ag. and Human Resources (CTAHR), and the Seeds of Well-being (SOW) Project. This podcast is supported by the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network (FRSAN) grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture and Hawaii Department of Agriculture.

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Jim:

The views, information or opinions expressed during the Seeds of Wellbeing series are solely those of the individuals involved, and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, our funders and any affiliated organizations involved in this project. Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing"Voices from the field" podcast featuring voices of Hawaii agriculture producers for Hawaii agriculture producers. These podcasts are made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, also known as CTAHR, and the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project, and is supported by a grant from the US Department of Agriculture, the National Institute of Food and Agriculture and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.

Dean Grewal:

What I will do is bring CTAHR wonderful resources; that is faculty, intellect, intellect, and it's many stations across the state. There are 20 active stations that CTAHR runs, that if we can make a significant impact on increasing Hawaii's food self sufficiency and agricultural product self sufficiency that includes cut flowers and nursery plants and everything agriculture, for that matter.

Jim:

In this episode, we speak with Dean Parwinder Grewal nine months after his appointment as Dean of the University of Hawaii's College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, where he is already starting to make his mark, like changing what CTAHR stands for. We find out about his agriculture and educational backgrounds and how he found out about and why he accepted the position in Hawaii. We hear his vision for Hawaii's resiliency, and how that has shaped and will shape his work and that of CTAHR into the future. We talk about CTAHR all the time, and every time we do a podcast, we use the acronym CTAHR - College of Tropical Agand Human Resources. But today we're with the recently appointed Dean of CTAHR. So I think to me, that's that's very interesting. I know in the ag community, and folks I talk to, people are always talking about CTAHR and extension agents and what's the role of CTAHR, what's going on with CTAHR? And there's been a lot of changes, certainly since the1990s here, especially when big ag left. So I think, welcome Dean Grewal!

Dean Grewal:

Thank you, Jim. Thank you for having me.

Jim:

Yes, I'm so glad I saw you at the Ag Conference on Oahu a few weeks back, and heard you speak there. And it occurred to me, it's like, I'm really interested in what he has to say, so I think maybe a lot of the other ag producers or the ag community does. So let's, let's see if he'll agree to be on a podcast. So thank you so much for agreeing.

Dean Grewal:

You're welcome. I'm happy to be here, and I I'm happy to you know, share anything about CTAHR that I know already and the impact of CTAHR around the state.

Jim:

That's great. We appreciate it. I think, maybe as a way to start, if you could give us a sense of how you found out about this job position, a little bit about your backgrounds, where you came from, your interest in in things related to agriculture, and kind of how that manifested into you applying for and accepting this position. That was in March, right? Was it March that you started? Yeah.

Dean Grewal:

I started in March, yeah,

Jim:

About nine months.

Dean Grewal:

Yeah, Jim, I actually grew up in India on a small farm. Our farm was four acres subsistence farm. That means we produced everything that we needed to live, basically grow everything that we need to eat. We were able to grow few large commodities in a larger quantity that we are able to sell in order to buy additional things, such as clothing and shoes and such. So it was essentially a subsistence farm, and we used very little technology at that time. And we will ask our neighboring, larger farmers who may be able to afford a tractor. So we will ask them to come cultivate our land. We pay them for that, and the rest of it was all manual labor. So Iknow how farming, how hard farming is. You know, hot weather, windy weather, dusty situations, cold weather, you have to tend to the activities of the farm. So that's kind of growing up. When I was going through that phase I was also studying, going through my schooling years, middle school, high school. But then I found a place. It's called the Punjab Agricultural University. So I joined in an undergraduate program in agriculture. First year, I didn't like it at all. I felt that what I'm learning here is, you know, I know I am a farmer, so we know everything. We don't need to worry aboutthis part. But from second year, they went into such good detail or new sciense of agriculture that I started to learn, learn about plants, plant physiology, the weeds, the animals, the food technology, soil science, import plant breeding, it was eye opening for me. I got hooked. I just loved my college years thereafter. Then I finished my masters there as well, while simultaneously tending to our farm. Three brothers, we always had a full responsibility for our farm. And then I started working in a different state in India. Then I got a fellowship to go to UK to get my PhD from Imperial College London, again, my PhD was on these nematodes that are parasites of insects, and they were developing those nematodes to as a biological control agents for insects. So they are now commercially available. Later on, when I came to US, I actually worked for a company that mass produced those nematodes as well.

Jim:

Was that directly inas a result of the research and the work you did?

Dean Grewal:

Correct as a result of that, correct,

Jim:

Are they, are they useful or available in Hawaii at all? Do you know?

Dean Grewal:

They are useful. They are available in Hawaii, but in very small quantities. The reason for that is that Hawaii has been far more restrictive in you know, their scrutinized biological control agents far more than other places, so they had limited to only those nematode species that occur within Hawaii. That's why only one or two species are available here, but not large, larger number of products. But you kind of wanted to say is that I came to US, I worked for a company for some time, and then I started my job with Ohio State University as a land grant institution, just like the University of Hawaii here, and I had, I would run there as a faculty member for 16 years. So that's where I worked, in Entomology Department. I'm a nematologist by training, but Icombined the nematode for insect control. That's how I was in entomology. So that said a lot of work that I published thattime. Number of PhD students, master students, graduated, mentored them, and then I went into administration. I went toUniversity of Tennessee at Knoxville, served as a department head for entomology and plant pathology. It's a combined department. Then I got recruited to serve as founding dean ofthe College of Sciences at the University of Texas Rio GrandeValley. That University is not a land grant institution, so I get to learn how those universities work and how they focus on student success and the other activities related to communityengagement. There I then got appointed as Executive Vice President for Research and Graduate Studies, and then I got recruited to serve as a inaugural president for Vermont State University. That was a new university that they were forming by combining smaller colleges and a technical college and a small university they brought together to form Vermont StateUniversity. After about a year, I was thinking to retire. That job was very hard. Budget cuts were needed, and it was somedecisions were hard for people to take. Then, under those stress conditions, I decided to resign from that position, and then I was looking for other opportunities. That's where this particular job came up. I did consider that maybe I should retire now that I have seen seen it all, all levels of administration within the university, as well as faculty life. Butthen this job really intrigued me. Because some of my research at Ohio State University focused on the city of Cleveland. We did some analysis with the city planners to see if the city could become self reliant in fresh produce or food, and we published a study in collaboration with those city planners, and we showed that with different scenarios, the city could actually become 100% self reliant in fresh produce, all the items they can produce in that weather condition. And on the top of that, eggs, honey and a few other items that they could actually produce within the city limits, and it is about 700,000 population that time. So that has been one of my signature publications that many cities reviewed, many cities altered policies related to urban agriculture because that study provided a really good impetus for urban agriculture, or, you know, to address food security and or vacant lot problems that different cities had after the real estate crisis. So that way I thought that, you know, Hawaii needs some that kind of perspective. Then I was reviewing what Hawaii's agriculture is about, and I felt number of I saw a number of studies conducted previously to focus on the that Hawaii needs to become more self sufficient in its food and all that. And then that is what I pitched as my vision during my interview process here, that what I will do is bring CTAHR's wonderful resources that is faculty, intellect, intellect, and it's many stations across the state. There are 20 active stations that CTAHR runs that if we can make a significant impact on increasing Hawaii's food self sufficiency and agricultural product self sufficiency that includes, you know, cut flowers and nursery plants and everything agriculture, for that matter, and they liked it, and that's what I've been working on and pushing ever since I got on this job. So that's the brief background and how I ended up here.

Jim:

Nice, Wow, that's quite the journey. Thanks for sharing all that, all those details. I think Iwill also try to find that study online somewhere and share that in the in the show notes. On one of our other podcasts, which I can link here as well, sorry, the Seeds of Wellbeing podcasts channel, has a discussion with Senator Tim Richards, and we've also spoken with other representatives. You know some that are very vocal about tryingto be supportive of agriculture in Hawaii, but they say that that they're talking to their peers in the political world that say it's not a priority to be self reliant or self sufficient. So I'm kind of curious if I mean, especially since you're a fairly recent addition, and you have this passion for for this cause that you just described, are you finding a lot of resistance, a lot of pushback, or from folks in politics especially, are you finding that's an issue for You?

Dean Grewal:

This is definitely this can be an issue, but it's not so pronounced in Hawaii. The reason ismulti-fold. I think the one key thing is after the sugar industry, after the pineapple industry. That was large commercial industry, the way we have it in Midwest, soybean and corn, right? Acres and acres of single crop. Those are commercial crops. You basically. They are produced for sale, and some of them could be only used as animal feed, for example, like corn. But for Hawaii, the challenge is different. We depend on import of our food from all over the world and majority from mainland, and we have only seven days capacity in terms of storage capacity. That is talking about that Hawaii is not resilient. What will happen if the ships don't show up for 10 days, just 10 days, not even a month or two month period, right? So we need to have systems that we can thrive on. That is what is calling for, for to be self sufficient. That's one reason. The second is the cost. Somebody else is driving the cost of products that are producedelsewhere. And we have we are reliant. We have to pay that whatever they demand that way. We need to address that, that there is so much economic leakage that is occurring because somebody is taking Hawaii's wealth away. That's number two. Number three, after the demise of those two big industries, we have many, many small farms, 60, over 60% of our farms are less than 10 acres, and then additional 25% are less than 50 acres, 50 acre farm in Midwest, Ohio, California is is very small, right? And we have like only 120 farms that are over 5000 acres, so there is room for everybody. But because CTAHR serves everybody, we need to be serving both small farmers and large farmers. For the benefit of Hawaii, for the benefit of the farmers for the benefit of the economy. And that is why I see this that sometimes I do here, because circular economy could be a bad word for some folks, but for Hawaii's context, it makes sense to have some level of resilience. You know, in this globalized world, we would not say that you have to close the borders and you have to be 100% you know, feeding or doing everything locally, but some level of local economy makes sense. So that's how my vision is for CTAHR to help build that basic level of, you know, self sufficiency, that could be 20% that could be 30% that could be 50% right, if we have, if we achieve 50% that's a high level of self sufficiency. And for Hawaii, being an island nation, it makes a lot of sense to go at least up to that far.

Jim:

And I think we also spoke with Kamehameha Schools about their goal to have 50% local and they're actually making great strides, especially compared to folks that had been talking about it for a long time and haven't made the same strides. But yeah, there's another podcast that we have with with KS, yeah, which I think is kind of leadingthe way. Yeah, so, so what I just heard was what, I think Tim Richards and others that are like minded and support agriculture, what you just said, they can share with their, with their, with their peers in politics, maybe try to get the message across.

Dean Grewal:

No, no, I, I would also add one more thing that I've been working with the Senator Dela Cruz, first time. I also, you know, met several times, Tim Richards and also Senator Gabbard. They all are very supportive of agriculture, no question. And Senator Dela Cruz, first time I heard his presentation related to the Wahiawa Center and new Whitmore project that he is working on, that his focus would be on exports. But over time, his focus also has shifted, and that is exciting news. Now he's working on a project, which is called the central kitchen, or regional kitchen concept for

Jim:

Right, exactly. Or certain types of bananas, I suppose, are Department of Education, right for the schools, when we feed the children with so many meals a day. And those regional kitchens can be the key point that will shift the balance. It will provide so much impetus for the local food producers, because the mandate from the state is already set 30% by 2030 and 50% locally sourced food by 2050 for those schools. And that is really would be transformative. If this project get successfully implemented, and it's open to multiple farmers, not just one or two farmers providing all of that, it will have significant impact in spreading the wealth and having lot more people benefiting from local agriculture and producing diversity of locally relevant food, fruits and vegetables that are locally relevant, not just apples and bananas. locally appropriate. But yes, Ihear you. So it sounds like, I guess the good news is, maybe the politics are changing a little and more in sync with your philosophy. And I think many of many that listen to this podcast. So that's, that's good news. You've mentioned a few words now that cause me to want to perhaps touch on CTAHR its history. You've mentioned land grant university, which I think is how the University of Hawaii was founded as a land grant university. Maybe quickly speak to CTAHR, how it was founded, what a land grant university is, and then maybe you could end with using the word resilience and what that means to you that might be interesting to folks listening or watching.

Dean Grewal:

Correct, correct. Yeah, I think this is a Hawaii has a very interesting history, right? It is a state that is not so recent in terms of the US history. I mean, it has been recently added as a state, but agriculture college was actually started in 1907 it got started as a college of, I believe, Tropical Agriculture and Mechanical Arts. That's the original kind ofname of the college, and which is similar to the act that federal government enacted tostart the land grant institutions. The Land Grant piece is that every state federal government will allot a, you know, some land for this college to create this education research activity to teach local folks to feed themselves, the art of agriculture, the art ofmaking small machines and whatever is needed locally. That's all the land grant mission got got started. So since 1907 the college has gone through many changes. After that federal act, there was another act that created extension as a component, that means that anything that these agriculture colleges are producing that need to also be shared with or spread out, or use that information to help farmers improve their practices. Similarly, a different act started the agricultural experiment stations, their applied agricultural research relevant to local environment local soil situations can be done new varieties that could be produced there or bred for that environment, and similarly for those soil conditions and environment conditions. So these separate components then got brought together to form a college, I believe, that was called HITAR Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources. And the Human Resources term might have come from the extension side. What I've heard lately is that they meant from Human Resources means the resources humans need to live, not so much the term now it means Human Resources means HR. That means, you know, the benefits, the salary issues, and you know, employee versus employer relationships, those are studied now in human resources, and those studies occur, our training occurs in college of businesses, not in agriculture college. So when I got here a number of people first, I started asking this question as to why we call ourselves as human resources. And then I decided to meet with every faculty member in my college, one on one. We have about 130 faculty now, and also with staff one on one in some of those meetings as people these issues did come up, and in one meeting, a faculty member suggested that it will be, you know, we have considered changing the name before, and people don't like name changes, right? It's always hard, but they made a suggestion that we could just change the last word, from resources to resilience, then CTAHR acronym will also stay. That was really an exciting moment, and I loved the idea, and I picked on that, and we did the survey of all our faculty. All our students and alumni, and we received over 66% support for the this name change, and 70% people felt that this new name aligns better with what college does. So in terms of what college is doing focus on Tropical Agriculture. We have many small farmers. So many more people are involved, right? And we have a Department of Family and Consumer Sciences in the College that focuses on human development. We have Department of Human Nutrition, and that focuses on, you know, they have SNAP Ed kind of programs, and also study the human nutrition components. With all that, this new name is far more inclusive of all the things that we do, including extension. That's main function, focus of extension, is helping and training farmers or individuals to make their life better, to improve their business, whatever to farming business or or food technology or food processing plant or whatever the case may be. So this new name actually is far exciting and relevant to what the college does, and it got approved by the President just this past month, and we just

Jim:

Nice, yeah, I just I noticed it on the website, and recently announced the new name. actually at the Ag conference, you mentioned as well. So I know I do work for CTAHR, and have for a number of years. And so anytime people ask me, CTAHR, what does that stand for? And I say, human resources, I've had different answers that seems like it's evolved over the years. So I think the answers I've given are, are have been accurate, depending on the year as the CTAHR has been around. But that's that's quite an arc for what about 120 years now, of of CTAHR, that's quite a lot of changes. But I guess the world has seen a lot of changes in 120 years too, for that matter, and agriculture in Hawaii, especially right? At the conference, I know you spoke to the vision, your vision for CTAHR, you've spoken to a little bit already as we as we speak now, but just kind of concretely. And again, I mentioned to you this. The focus of this is our Hawaii AG, producers, so like, can you just share some of your vision for CTAHR, its role. How, how you expect local Hawaii AG, producers at, you know, 60 plus percent that are small scale can tap into some of those resources or or look into what's available through CTAHR,

Dean Grewal:

Right. So I think that overall key vision that I have for CTAHR, that is not coming just from me, but it is kind of collective vision now of the college, because it has formed due to multiple conversations with faculty staff and with the interaction with stakeholders, with legislators, legislators as well, is that we need to have, CTAHR needs to have some significant direct impact on Hawaii's food and agriculture product self sufficiency. That is our overarching goal now for CTAHR that, how can we bring our resources, the faculty's intellect, faculty's research and all these ag experiment stations that are, you know, nicely located in different biomes, different environments around the state, how we can bring all that to bear to have significant impact. So we move the needle from that 10 to 15% local, locally produced or source food, to somewhere 30% to 50% something like that. I think that is our key goal, and how we plan to achieve that is motivating the faculty to focus on Hawaii-centric research, and also providing faculty resources and incentives that they focus on Hawaii-centric work, and finally, working with the legislators, working with stakeholders to help them address their challenges that they might have, and the challenges could be multi fold. Lot of people tell me that the cost of our, you know, cost of production, is high. Uh, let's look at why the cost is high. Is it labor issues? Is it the land tenure? Land issues? Let's work with the legislature if they need research, data, information. Let the college do the studies and provide the information that's needed to make a change. Can our faculty come up with the new varieties that are more productive, or they are more disease resistant, so that there is much less loss, therefore cost of production goes down. What about new technologies? Technologies that like the drone technology, where you don't need as much labor you sit in your you know, air conditioned farm building, and you are able to detect where the pest problems are, where the plants suffering from some nutritional deficiency, and spray targeted amounts at wherever it is needed, and that kind of innovations that faculty are prepared to do, and if we focus on what Hawaii needs, we will be making progress much faster. One piece related to technology is that, since we have many, many small farms, we don't have right kind of machines, right kind of sprayer equipment, right kind or right size of harvesters, because the industry went in the larger direction over the years, right? So we need that kind of Ag Engineering program right here in Hawaii that meets our own needs and help reduce or address the labor issues. Those kinds of things is what we will work on. So one of our overarching theme of how to achieve this vision is through collaborative innovation. What I mean by that is that we should not be in silos. We should not be competing with each other. Within the University of Hawaii system, we have a number of community colleges that have some, have some some of them have agriculture programs, even West Oahu. University of Hawaii, West Oahu has a undergraduate program in sustainable food systems. Hilo has agriculture programs. We should work together, synergize and help each other support their program so that all of us have a greater impact on what Hawaii needs, and that is our key goal moving forward, that easy transfer of students from community colleges to CTAHR programs and also helping each other in terms of providing what we can provide because CTAHR agriculture Experiment Stations are closer to some of the community colleges there on a different island. How can we work together to help each other and address the workforce issue and whatever else that we can do for the local communities.

Jim:

Yeah, and I guess to try to get even more concrete with you, if you, if you will, is like, are you in conversations with deans of the community colleges? Is there consensus building to have that transition of an ag program from, say, two to four year be a fairly seamless process like it, it can be in many university and college relationships across the country?

Dean Grewal:

Correct. So I have actually already met all the chancellors of all the community colleges in Hawaii, and also the chancellors of the four year schools that we have in addition to Manoa right the West, Oahu and Hilo. In all cases, they are all eager to work together. No, no question. The reason I met them first is to kind of get buy in from the top. And now we have started conversations further down the line at the Dean levels, at the Provost levels at each institution, so that we can build those transfer pipelines, even create new programs if they are needed for for example. We have already a signed agreement with the Kapiolani Community College here and also with the Windward Community College on a program. But just yesterday, I have signed another agreement that is a statewide agreement with all community colleges into our environment Natural Resources and Environment Program. Which is NRM program so that students can transfer into that program. Yeah, yesterday, we explored this with Leeward Community College. Now you know Leeward Community College is has this new Food Innovation Center there, right through new value added food Development Center, and they do not have a food science program, so now we are working with them that they could create an under two year Food Science program, then the students can easily get to finish their degrees at Manoa. So we are already working on this, and they are excited about it, and we are excited about it. And, you know, there will be some challenges, as you know, sometimes that we get stuck on a particular course and such, but we will diligently deal with those.

Jim:

Nice. Getting buy-in from the top, I imagine, will will make a big difference. But I mean, resources are key, right? You don't mind my blunt, bluntness. I've worked with folks at the community colleges a bit in agriculture. I know there's a lot of passionate people. Worked with a number of state Extension Agents, either through the GoFarm program, and make connections there or on my own. And I mean, it's every, let me put it this way, everyone seems overworked and underpaid and not enough time. And you know what I mean? It just feels like every everyone's passion is everyone that has has this passion that we talk about it in the college system and the extension agent system, I feel like is really, are really exhausted just from working so hard for so long, for so many and feeling frustrated by not being able to do enough because they can't do enough. So I guess my question to you is, do you think resources are going to be added, or the collaboration perhaps would would help where there's less silos so people can maybe collaborate and help one another. But what do you think there are, are there people being hired? Are there is there? Is there? Are there solutions being implemented to help with the burnout, with the I guess people would call under staffing. I think we'd agree it is for the need. But um, can you just comment on that for a moment, if you don't mind,

Dean Grewal:

Right. From the college perspective, it is, you know, College has suffered a lot over a number of years, even before the pandemic, lot of faculty that were outstanding faculty. You know, this, college was world renowned, with some in some areas, soil science, plant breeding. We had the best plant breeders in the world, and then we had people that developed disease resistant varieties of pineapple, you name it, a number of different things. But then we lost them due to downturns in economy that time, they were not replaced. Then hit the pandemic. So then freeze came squeeze of you. Maybe some positions were taken away by the legislature as well. So that said, over the last two years or so, things have started to turn. Last year, we hired, think 19 different faculty in different areas, including extension. And this year, we will be adding 14 new faculty. I think that brings new blood, new ideas, into the college, and lot of excitement as to what it can be. And this time, the focus would be on diversified ag, right, on, you know, lot of small scale farms, but let's not forget the big farms too, because they can produce a lot if we can also help them increase their efficiency further and or reduce the use of say, chemical inputs, that can help them be more cost effective, but also environment friendly. We need to continue to work with all of them and our extension as I go to different stakeholder state association meetings, but also individual farms that I have visited. I hear a lot of good things about extension. How these extension agents provide the information, and quite often, one-on-one mentoring relationships that they have established to be on the farm on a single phone call the same day to help see or alleviate the problems. It's amazing. A lot of people tell me they're not enough extension agents for everything that has to happen. So we are very thankful that this last year we received five new extension position through the legislature, so that is filling the gaps. So right now, I think the college is on a place to fill these gaps. It might take us another year or two to basically be filling the gaps that are appropriate now. For example, we don't not have an expert on macademia nuts. We do not have a faculty expertise on coffee. We only have one agent that works on coffee. But these are the industries that are forking in export money for Hawaii, and we need to have support for for these. We do not have a weed scientist in the entire land grant college. That's not right. And so those are the gaps we will fill first, but then we also want to build high and cutting edge technology experts, cutting edge sciences into, you know, different areas, so that we can be as progressive as some of the other land grant colleges.

Jim:

No, I think that sounds encouraging. I know I was disappointed when I found out that I couldn't take my soil to be tested or tissue samples anymore. I couldn't take those into university. That got shut down, I'm gonna say, a couple years ago, and so now I have to send it to the mainland, right? So it's, do you think things like that will be resurrected as a result of the new hires?

Dean Grewal:

Correct. There is, we are working on that, as to what we can do in terms of resurrecting that. The new group of scientists that are they are developing new methods that are Hawaii relevant, because Hawaii soils are different. You know, phosphorus needs are different, and some of the soil testing that was done in the past using past methodology are no longer relevant. They don't produce the right information. So the new science that is being developed, it will lead to new types of soil analysis that is one piece. And so in the meantime, what we do? So we are currently contemplating what we can do in the meantime, because some people have just stopped doing the soil analysis, yeah, which is, it's costly, right? And it takes time. And then after you get the results, there has to be interpretation of that also as to what does it mean.

Jim:

Yeah, yeah, that's critical. So, and also a local expertise. And I think my last question is, and I know you have to go, but my last question that I'm curious about is, you mentioned incentives to educators in the university system for teaching about local agriculture production, specifically. I heard you correctly, yes? That's, that's one of, one of your priorities? Maybe it's because I used to be a teacher. But I'm kind of curious what those incentives are that help, help the teachers, kind of focus on local agriculture.

Dean Grewal:

Right. You know, part of it is providing this vision at the college level. College, as I mentioned at the conference, is a $35 million operation, right? So we have put together, including grants and everything, over 500 staff, including faculty, temporary staff that we hire, providing a clear direction as to where we want to go, what our impact is, in collaboration with the stakeholders, in collaboration with the legislature, right? If we are all moving in the same direction, we can actually have a significant impact, and that provides the inspiration as we value what faculty accomplish, what staff accomplish, and we have to measure our impact also. Once we measure we celebrate small successes, and that lead to further inspiration of, you know, maybe rewarding people if they contribute something significant in that direction, then always additional resources could help. You know, if all the new programs in terms of, let's say, controlled environment agriculture, then you have a GoFarm program. How we can support the GoFarm program to be even more effective than what it has been? You know, right now, it trains new farmers on a very small scale, up to half an acre and so on. How can there be a GoFarm phase two in which they are training people for 10 to 50 acre farm? That will require different level of machines, right? That will require different way of thinking, because you can't be doing everything by hand at that level, so that we are thinking that maybe GoFarm would have phase one and phase two, where phase two is catering to the mid level farm size.

Jim:

Interesting. Yeah, it's they have certainly have a great track record, which is part of why I wear these GoFarm T-shirts every, every time I do these podcasts. Big fan, as as many are, of their programs.

Dean Grewal:

I've heard so many good things about GoFarm and about our extension. And I think that is that is good. I have also heard a few negatives, in a way that where people have not been able to be served because we have fewer extension agents, and in some situations where we may have dropped the ball. And in all those situations, we will continue to work harder and add more extension agents, or figure out ways to work in a more smarter manner, because now the farmer that's coming in is also different. Some of them are coming with highly educated background. Some are engineers. Some are business right and and yes, they can get all the facts from extension on this, right? We thank Dean Grewal for sharing his mana'o, the story of how he

Jim:

Who want to control their drones on their smartphones, right? While they sit inside. Well, there's some smart technologies. We did have an ag conference right after COVID, the first ag conference on the Big Island for technology and agriculture, which I think was pretty interesting. So it's always but again, is it appropriate? So I'm really became CTAHR's latest Dean and his thoughts for the future of intrigued by the idea of incentivizing local faculty to really focus on local agriculture production, and again, crops that that do well here, as opposed to trying to force mainland crops that may not be appropriate here to grow. So we've heard that quite a bit as well. That's good. I thought this nearly 120 year old Hawaii college devoted to Hawaii maybe you were just like, if, if, if I have a module on local Hawaii agriculture as a teacher, then maybe I get free, free lunches for the semester, but not quite that concrete, but whatever gets the job done, I think, yeah, it's, it's exciting agriculture. If you want to know more about some of the topics we to me, and my experiences, and some of my peers, folks I've spoken to that are small scale farmers like me, to hear that there's going to be new hires, more extension agents. I have a lot of respect for extension agents. I feel bad that they seem stressed out pretty much all the time. So I think, I think having them have help is a great idea. discussed, just look for those links in the show notes. Mahalo. You want to share anything to our Hawaii ag producers out there? What's, I'm a small scale Hawaii ag producer. I'm part of that two-thirds of of the farmers that are small scale. I need help with, you know, with with pests and disease and with soil, and with, you know, things like that. What, what's the best way for me to approach CTAHR?

Dean Grewal:

Right? So one of our initiatives, which aligns with the vision, is to turn our experiment stations into hubs of local innovation and community prosperity, because these places are close to the local farmers, local community. How we can make these places more impactful, more useful for local community, address their local issues? That's what we are pushing for now, is to engage with the local community that could be small farmers. This could be homeowners, just backyard growers and or they bring in other issues that could be health related. It could be local school system issues, right? If CTAHR can help as an anchor in that using that particular space like a small station that we have in pretty much every community. And let's have bi-directional conversation faculty and community leaders, whoever wants to come together, solve, develop solutions, co-develop solutions to local problems. The problem could be bigger than agriculture, but then we bring our collaborators. CTAHR is part of a huge university. We have medical school, we have law school, we have, you know, so many other resources, some resources could be brought from other parts of the university, using that station as an anchor to help local community do locally relevant research and help local entrepreneurs with their their problems. And same thing with the farmers issues. Two ways. One, you know, there is one-on-one help to each individual farmer, it's costly, but our extension is doing that, and that is where I think the farmer gets most out of it because they get this first hand relationship, and, you know, they share everything and get to the bottom of the issues. But then the other piece is at a broader level, where we publish or share the information, and maybe there needs to be an website based exchange, where farmer can field a question, where other farmers can chime in and answer that, or extension agents can answer that, so that there isn't that time wasted. It's like simultaneously, in real time, the solutions are being discussed, resources are being shared, something like that would address these, the staff shortage issue as we move forward. So we have to be innovative in how we work as

Jim:

Yeah, so it sounds like some new, new things coming out well. that you're you're hoping will meet some of those needs. I think, like right now, Facebook is filling some of that need. But I think having a trusted, vetted, you know, authoritative source for information would be nice. I know the CTAHR website is, again, after 120 years of a college, you get a lot of information in there, and you can trying to find things can be a little daunting, for sure. I like, I think the idea of the research centers as kind of agriculture community centers, if you will. Yeah, that seems like a great idea. Seems a little, you know, it's going to take a while for that to happen, I imagine. But today is you said, is there it's expensive to engage extension agents. Is that expensive for the university expensive, or expensive for the Ag producer, or both?

Dean Grewal:

Um, you mean to seek extensions help?

Jim:

Exactly.

Dean Grewal:

No. Extension is free, and we are supposed to provide free information. That's the mandate of the land grant college. So that part is clear, but how many clients or farmers a single extension agent can serve? Right? That is the biggest question. That's where we go to the legislature. We say, you know, we lost so many and can we fill at least a few? You know, that's how we have been, have been filling.

Jim:

Okay, great, yeah. I just wanted to be clear about the the cost part, because, yeah,

Dean Grewal:

There is no cost to the farmers for advice or for any information. And in some cases, we've been even providing seeds of new varieties at a very low cost. And even the soil analysis service that was provided was also very charged, very little, not recovered the cost even. Still, we continue to provide plant diagnostics, the pest problems, the disease problems. If you send a sample of your plant material, we are providing the free service, you know, in a way, very cheap diagnostic service. And I would like to do more of that. I would like to continue the soil analysis while the new methods are being developed not to have to for people to wait, yeah,

Jim:

No, that would be great. And it sounds like for now, check the website, find the usual resources there for for such things and materials and publications as well, of course, and probably subscribe to newsletters from your local Extension agents. I've found that useful and myself, I know and and maybe, or social media and all the places you can find information now. But thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I guess I'll say both aloha and mahalo since you're in nine months now into your Hawaii life and lifestyle. So thank you so much

Dean Grewal:

Aloha, and it was my pleasure. Thank you, Jim.

Unknown:

The intention of these podcast series is to create a safe space for a respectful and inclusive dialog with people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making accessible the food we share together. A diversity of voices, perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding, to spark creative problem solving and provide insight into the complexities of our agriculture system. If you, our listeners, have experiences with Hawaii agriculture ecosystem, from indigenous methods, permaculture, small holder farmers to large including multinational agricultural industrial companies, and everywhere in between, and you would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your voices and perspectives.